In a Chicago Tribune article from today about the commitment of Martez Wilson to Illinois, Wilson talked about the influence college coaches have on NFL coaches in terms of prospects.
“Ron Zook said, ‘They don’t listen to those college coaches. I can call them about someone right now’ and he made a face,” Wilson said. “For me to get to the NFL, I have to put in the work myself.”
Sorry Ron, but maybe the NFL coaches just don’t listen to you because you’ve proven to be a poor gameday coach and an even worse developer of talent. Or, maybe they don’t listen to you because you simply don’t know too many of them in a position to make draft decisions.
Now, let’s see… I think Bill Belichick would listen to Charlie Weis if he told him something. Maybe it’s the three Super Bowl rings Charlie helped Bill win, but something tells me he might listen to him.
What about Eric Mangini who was on the same offensive staff as Weis with the Patriots? Think he might, just might listen to what Charlie had to say about a particular recruit? Romeo Crennel, head coach of the Cleveland Browns, who was the defensive coordinator on all those Patriots Super Bowl teams, might just listen to Weis as well.
How about Andy Reid? The head coach of the Eagles, who happened to come to the Notre Dame-USC game last year and who just happens to be close friends with Weis, he may listen to the Charlie has to say.
Something tells me that Bill Polian just may elicit the advice of his son Brian, who happens to coach special teams for Notre Dame, if he had a question about a prospect who played for the Irish. I could be wrong there though.
And then there’s Bill Parcells, the man who gave Weis his first big break in coaching when he made him his running backs coach with the Giants. Parcells drafted Notre Dame tight end Anthony Fasano in the second round last year, but other than that, there’s no reason to suspect he’d listen to anything Weis would have to say.
I’m sure there’s plenty of other examples of other college coaches with some similar connections such as Pete Carroll who also coached in the NFL. My point is, how is Zook able to sell such asinine statements to recruits?
Of course an NFL coach is going to listen to a college coach if they know him personally.
I guess you have to give Zook some credit for being able to convince these recruits that Weis and his staff’s NFL connections don’t mean much. It’s too bad that Illinois expectations will be much lower than Florida’s were with Zook. The Gators tossed Zook after three seasons when they saw he could recruit but couldn’t win. The Illini, however, are likely to keep Zook around considerably longer since a six or seven win season would be an improvement for them right now.
Zook’s comments were actually pretty accurate. In today’s day of combines, personal workouts, personal interviews, Wonderlich (sp?) tests, and extensive video scouting, the “good word” of a college coach really doesn’t mean that much. Oh sure, if Charlie Weis picks up the phone and calls one of his many, many contacts in the NFL he could probably get a guy an invite to camp, or he might get a guy bumped from a 7th round pick to a 6th round. But if you think any NFL coach is going to risk a high draft pick on a guy just because one of his former assistants tells him to, instead of trusting all the other data they can collect from the above-mentioned tests, you’re deluding yourself.
Mr. McWhiney
Here’s some “tradition” trivia for you: ILLINOIS was years ahead of Notre dame in collegiate sports, in particular football. We created the Homecoming tradition. We built a stadium before Notre Dame, we became proverbial national champs before ND….and we always have better looking cheerleaders.
But just in case, here’s some future tradition for you:
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=14&yr=2007
get used to being behind the Illini, times are a changin’, leprechaun boy :)
HOLY CRAP! Where do I begin?
“…he’s selling a vision of a great future at a landmark university with 4 or 5 satelite campuses throughout IL totalling well over 50,000 students, in a state with a population near 13 mill. He’s not selling some worn out, heyday “tradition” in a state with half a dozen other major universities and half the population of IL.”
***WTF? Can you say “immaterial”? Regarding your minimum major university and population quota, what would you classify Alabama, Nebraska, and Oklahoma as? They don’t have the number of people or major universities COMBINED that the state of Indiana has, and yet any one of those universities has a tradition fifty times that of an Illinois. And when should we talk about the fact that South Bend is 40 miles CLOSER to Chicago–you know, the city you’re using to inflate your bullshit in the first place–then Illinois’ Champaign campus?
“Ron Guenther, argueably the best AD in the country, understood that Zook was never given an opportunity at Fla…he has taken so much unjustified abuse over the past 4 years”
***The best AD in the country? Based on WHAT exactly? Three consecutive five-loss seasons at a talent-rich school like Florida is regarded by anyone and everyone not actually living in Champaign as a fair shake and justified abuse.
“Now, things are beginning to play out as expected…2 years from now and he’ll be dominating the big 10, and therefore the country.”
***You “expected” to go 5-18 these last two seasons? Way to shoot for the moon, big guy. Zook will never finish any higher than fourth, maybe third, in the Big Ten. Even if Illinois dominated the Big 10, you’re talking about a conference that has accounted for FOUR consensus national championships since 1949. (Notre Dame BY ITSELF has four consensus NCs since ’49.)
I’m all for considered banter with Illini fans. But much like your head coach, all of you have an amazing gift for talking out of your ass.
“Message to all Illini faithful: You need to learn the difference between sour grapes and someone sincerely disturbed at watching a snakeoil salesman like Ron Zook dupe a handful of naive kids into flushing their football careers down the toilet.”
Unfrickin’ believable. FYI, every coach is a salesman moron, some are just better than others. he’s selling a vision of a great future at a landmark university with 4 or 5 satelite campuses throughout IL totalling well over 50,000 students, in a state with a population near 13 mill. He’s not selling some worn out, heyday “tradition” in a state with half a dozen other major universities and half the population of IL. Why don’t you folks just admit it: you’re scared of the future and your threatened by Zook. Zook knew the potential at IL when he accepted the position, and he’s reiterated it for the past 2 years. Ron Guenther, argueably the best AD in the country, understood that Zook was never given an opportunity at Fla. Now, things are beginning to play out as expected, and you imbeciles are getting nervous. What amazes me about Zook is that he has taken so much unjustified abuse over the past 4 years, yet it doesn’t phase him one bit; his vision is stronger than ever. That’s character, and what true champions are made of. Zook has more hutzpah and vision than any coach I’ve seen in awhile and it’s contagious. 2 years from now and he’ll be dominating the big 10, and therefore the country.
Message to all Illini faithful: You need to learn the difference between sour grapes and someone sincerely disturbed at watching a snakeoil salesman like Ron Zook dupe a handful of naive kids into flushing their football careers down the toilet. Zook has been and always will be a poor gameday coach. He’s telling 5-star receivers they’ll be featured in a offense led by a run-first, run-second, pass-only-when-my-life-depends-on-it option QB. (Juice is not a poor man’s Troy Smith. He’s a poor man’s Reggie Ball.) Zook is promising national title contention when the best he’s fundamentally capable of delivering to his kids is a fourth place finish in the Big Ten.
Zook isn’t outhustling. He’s just hustling.
Bertrum Berry has been a perenial leader in sacks in the NFL but can’t seem to avoid the injury bug lately. Of course, he plays for the lowly Cardinals, so it’s not suprising.
Bryant Young has had an All-Pro career w/ the Niners.
Hunter Smith (I know he’s only a punter) has turned in an All-Pro career w/ Indy.
Luke Petigout, Jordan Black, Dusty Ziegler have been staring on the O-line for their respective teams.
Justin Tuck started this year w/ the Giants before getting injured & Rocky Boiman now starts at LB for the Colts.
Craig Hentrich has been a great kicker in the NFL.
I know not all these guys are on the tips of the avg. NFL fan’s tongue, but they all log playing time worthy of a starter so I won’t bore you w/ all the others who are role players, rookies or backups on current rosters. The bottom line is that ND continues to put players in the league w/ the best of them. That’s saying something considering that most of these players were undercoached or forgotten while playing for Davie &/or Willingham.
Julius Jones?
David Givens has scored a touchdown in something like six or seven straight playoff games, which is an NFL record…
Last time I checked the illini were also putting quite a few guys in the NFL…ND’s day as a NFL automatic are long gone. I’m trying to think of anyone from ND making a splash lately even? Name somebody quick, please. Bettis? Then who?
Exactly
I agree Champaign O-flow. There’s way too many 4-5 star athletes, not to mention the diamonds in the rough that go overlooked, to go around for every team to get their share.
Can Zook coach? I think the jury is still out on that, his first year and a half he was playing with Ron’s rejects, and he cut his looses and started playing freshman and Sophs. I may be wrong, but I think we were one of the youngest teams in Div.1 last year. Just by having a Freshman as your starting QB is 2-3 looses because of “freshman mistakes”.
I don’t believe for a second any of these top flight kids picked IL because of the NFL comment, they picked us because they basically walk into a starting role from day one. We don’t have 4 and 5 star players stacked at almost every position like the USC’s tOSU Mich and ND, at least not yet, so it’s kind of easy to cherry pick kids with the promise of making them starters, who would want to go to a school being a top recuit and ride the bench for 2-3 years before your chance to play came?
I don’t know why we cannot coexist on this issue, ND will always be able to get 5 star recruits, but not all of them. This will just make football in the midwest that much better.
Go Illini
I feel bad for you Domers. How sad it must be to be so insecure, when nobody has a cushier deal in college athletics. You get to go to BCS bowl games that other more deserving teams aren’t allowed to go to, because of your sweetheart deal. You’ve got your own network to televise your games against mostly weak competition, because you have legions of people who’ll tune in, either to cheer you or cheer aginst you (hard to believe that, given the intelligence of this blog topic).
It must hurt when recruits see through the veneer of your underserving paper dominance. Be happy with what you have, even if it doesn’t translate into bowl victories. Be happy that Illinois, with all its recruiting success, will probably not be able to duplicate your BCS bowl appearances, no matter how good the recruits turn out to be. They’ll actually have to earn the bids. Maybe if you stop acting so greedy and arrogant people won’t hate you so much. Happy holidays.
dude, great reply. I guess some people are “ND fans” only when they are winning.
I haven’t laughed this hard in awhile. Thanks!
IR. I like your stuff. I truly like that last comment.
Merry Christmas! GO IRISH!
Jeff,
I addressed it briefly a couple posts up. Just what do you expect a recruiter to do? Of course they’re going to play up their side of things and attempt to diminish the other sides.
It’s called selling yourself. I think that’s where the original blogger got off track. I think he was right on about Zook being a great recruiter but a poor coach. But a coach certainly has a right (in fact an obligation since these guys are paid alot) to try to persuade a recruit to see things his way. Do you expect Zook or any other coach to not play up what they have to offer? I’m not a salesman, but that’s what salesman do.
HAHAHAHA, to have awoken a sleeping giant…. doesn’t there have to be a giant sleeping in the first place?
Zook is an excellent recruiter, I won’t deny that.
How exactly is Notre Dame slipping into medicrity though? Two years ago at this time Notre Dame was in the Insight.com Bowl and finished the year 6-6. Three years ago Notre Dame was 5-6 and stayed home for the holidays. Since then, Notre Dame is 19-5 over the last two seasons with back to back BCS bids.
If any sleeping giant has been awoken… a reasonable observer might suggest that the team with the better overall recruiting class and back to back BCS bids is the giant that has been awoken.
and in the words of Clark W. Grizwold who I am currently watching in National Lampoons Christmas Vacation… Merry Christmas to all… and to all a good night.
I have yet to see ANY comments from Illinois fans defending Zook’s comments about the NFL listening to college coaches…which by the way, was the point of Frank’s article.
Still waiting…
“Thanks for taking the bait Illinois fans, you were quicker to mobilize than most of the opposing fans who can’t seem to get enough of Notre Dame football websites. Bravo.”
Frank, Frank, Frank, that’s just an out and out lie. Be honest, you were expecting a swarm of ND faithfuls to respond to your pathetic blog and provide you with some reassurance that everything will be all right, because you know, deep down Frank, Zook is absolutely right about recruiting. you needed some reassurance, some glimmer of hope, that your precious notre dame isn’t really slipping into mediocrity. but we’re all here to tell you otherwise Frank. Illinois (and the rest of the Big 10) is your worst nightmare and we’re slowly but surely taking back our state. And someday, we’ll be in yours. As Admiral Yamamoto is credited with saying after the attack on Pearl Harbor: “I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve.”
and on that note, I bid you football junkies a good night. Here’s to settling differences on the grid iron someday. Go Illini!
Merry Christmas
p.s. Oh Frank, thanks for taking the bait ;)
One more point – I agree with alot of the original blogger’s thoughts, but I have one question for him. What does he expect Zook to say to recruits – “I have little to offer, I don’t know anyone in the NFL?”
Time for a drink. Merry Christmas to all.
Fat Daddy H, that’s the most original comment that I’ve ever heard about Charlie Weis. Gee, I never knew he was fat until you made that brilliant remark. And the armed forces, never heard that one either. That’s rich. Damn, you remind me of the brilliant John Saunders, Craig James, Tim Brando & Mike Wilbon. ND tried to schedule Central Michigan, Western Carolina, The citadel, Southwest Missouri State, Tennessee State, Eastern Washington, Howard, Eastern Michigan, Youngstown St., and North Dakota St, but the likes of LSU, Arkansas, Auburn, Michigan, West Virginia, Rutgers & OSU beat them to the punch.. No way the aforementioned teams are more impressive than Army, Air Force & 9-3 Navy. If you think otherwise & consider yourself fairminded, then you should be drug tested & relagated to washing cars for the rest of your adult life.
Lunch,
Thanks for the civilized reply. I just get frustrated, as you know, when someone (not you) acts like they’ve met or know EVERY ND fan & can, therefore; label them as “thin-skinned”, “elitist”, “playing the academic card”, the list goes on. Even if that person lives in South Bend, they can’t pigeonhole every ND fan. As a matter of fact, I’m sure there’s plenty of college f’ball fans in South Bend who hate ND just out of spite. Believe me, if I wasn’t an ND fan, I’d probably hate ’em too. Try being an ND fan in the south where the SEC is the de facto toughest conference in America year after year. Finally, I think Weis is the best representative of ND football b/c, like ND, you either love Weis or you hate him (I’m pretty confident I know where you stand). So I don’t begrudge your ill feelings towards him, just giving you a hard time.
The question is not that they listen to charlie, but maybe fat charlie can get advice on how to win a bowl game that doesnt involve a team from the armed forces.
Irish Realist, I will have more on Dinardo’s comments later… too much stuff to finish yet for Christmas tonight, but I will have something up later.
This is one of the dumbest blogs that I have ever seen. Its amazing how these writers who have never played the game are experts all of a sudden. Saying Zook couldnt win at UF is ridiculous. He was 7-3 his last season, and lost those 3 games by, what, a combined total of 11 or 12 pts. Not bad considering Spurrier didnt leave him much to work with.
I actually thought Zook was a great hire for Illinois & for Zook. It was a good match & as a person who hails from Illinois, I’ll be rooting for them to move to the top of the Big 10. I mean, who can have anything against Illinois? They’re never mentioned as an outlaw football factory & seem to get lost in the shuffle of the Big 10 when they should be exploiting the gold mine that is Chicago.
On another subject ND fans, did you see Gerry DiNardo’s drunken comments? He sounds like John Saunders or Mark May.
7 – you don’t think Florida-OSU is a good game? I think it will be a great game and I think Florida is very capable of beating OSU.
Also, I’d have to agree with Frank a few posts above. Illinois may beat out ND for some Chi/Illinois players, but we won’t be going up against each other for recruits that often.
This is priceless. Good luck in a couple weeks guys. We will get ready for next year, nothing wrong with that. Anyways, none of the bowl games are that great anyways. Ohio State is the best and it would be sad if they lost. Michigan v. USC is the biggest game. But for the most part none of it is that interesting. Hopefully next year we will have 2 unbeatens again in the title game.
*mediocre
Hell, I don’t even care. We’ve landed some highly sought after prospects and will continue to. Zook can go right ahead and haul in all these great players, and churn out medicore seasons for the rest of his career just like he did at Florida.
Illionoisfan, have you ever wondered why if Ron Zook is such a great coach, he was never able to win more than 8 games in any season at Florida even though they had top 5 talent? And how Urban Meyer in just two years has Florida in the title game?
zooker is a “players” coach. Believe me, us ND fans know these types of coaches all to well (see ty willingham and bob davie) he’ll be their buddy. If illini players lose a fight on campus to fraternity members like his gator players did in 2004, Zooker will have their back and go to the frat house and give them whatfor.
But to say the jury is still out on Weis as a recruter is ludicrous. Weis came in 2 years ago and somehow managed a top 25 class even though Ty’s coaches pretty much shutdown their recrutiing after Ty was canned. he pulled a top 3 class last year and this year he may have the top class. yes ND lost to Michigan but they beat Michigan last year. yest they lost to Ohio State and USC. The fact is ND is not close to tehir talent levels. That will really change in 2007 and beyond.
Zooker is a great recruiter, but his record shows he just cannot coach at the head coach level very well.
Irish,
You are also capable of some lucid comments but you seem to take poetic license with some of them. Such as, accusing Borat of insisting that you can only be fan of a team if you graduated there. I don’t think he said that and in fact, although I don’t want to speak for Borat, it may have been a tongue in cheek reference to the fact that most (notice I didn’t say all) ND fans are always playing the academic card, looking down on both players and fans of other schools.
As for Charlie Weis, I am not obsessed and no restraining order is necessary. In fact, while I do consider most ND fans to be thin skinned I would never accuse Charlie of being THAT.
Merry Christmas
Don, I’m not one to talk about spelling and grammar, but man…. how many glasses of holiday egg nog did you have before you dribbled out that response??
And I said three Super Bowl rings Charlie HELPED Belichick win – implying that Belichick won them with Weis’s help, not the other way around.
As for Illinois beating ND for recruits on a regular basis? Maybe locally with prospects like Wilson and Hughes, but most of ND’s recruits don’t have Illinois on their radars…
I don’t have a problem with a kid going somewhere other than Notre Dame and if Mr. Wilson truely is happier at Illinois than Notre Dame, all the power to him to go where he feels more comfortable.
My whole point, however, is that Zook telling these kids stuff like “the NFL doesn’t listen to college coaches” effects Notre Dame’s recruiting since that is one of the major selling points Weis has to offer. Comments like that being printed can also effect other recruits who read them which is why I posted the NFL connections this staff has.
In a way, Zook might be the best thing Illinois could hope for right now. If he continues to recruit well, the next coach is going to inherit a ton of talent.
Hey: That is pretty damm arrogant reply –Weiss didn’t win the htree ruings..Belechek did–the last time I looked he was the coach–and Notre damm shouldn’t be looking down their noses at Ilinois–you may have to play us some day–and I personally don’t give a damm abut the Notre dame blog or Touchdown Jesus.
The smell of sour grapes is all over this article. Sure, the jury is still out as to whether Zook’s teams will win big at Illinois.
Given our last two classes, though, I’d say the odds are pretty good we’ll be beating ND for recruits on a regular basis, as well is in the polls, etc. Time will tell, and it’s a good time to be an Illini fan.
Illini fan here and I can’t disagree with this blog. Zook’s a great salesman, but I don’t have high expectations for his coaching ability to convert the talent to wins on the field. And the author is correct in saying that Illini fans (unlike Florida fans) will probably be satisfied with 7 or 8 wins a year.
I do have a problem with the indignant tone of the blog (and of some N. Dame fans) that a kid might prefer to go somewhere else than South Bend.
WHat a bunch of predictable lemmings. Frank set you chumps up like a hayseed on his 1st trip to the big city. He put out 3 blogs that got nothing but true ND fan response b/c it didn’t involve Brady Quinn or another team (esp. Big 10 teams), then mentions another team & you freaks can’t wait to pause your porn downloading to take shots at the Irish.
Chuck’s left nut (or something to that effect) said there’s plenty to talk about this time of year. She obviously hasn’t been on these blogs or has no life/family. Yeah there’s 32 bowls & most of them are meaningless unless you’re: A.) an alum B.) family member playing in game or C.) your a degenerate gambler.
Yeah Mike, we know ND is going to get shellacked. where the hell have you been…that’s old news idiot. You think you’re freaking Nostradamus b/c you picked the easiest bowl to choose a winner. Way to go out on a limb. Congrats, the GED is in the mail.
Borat said Weis can only recruit b/c he has “the big university name behind him”. What an uninformed comment. Davie & Willingham tried to let the overrated ND name recruit for them and look what it got them…canned. Willingham & co. didn’t even have Quinn on their radar until Ndukwe & his dad insisted that they take a look at him. High school players don’t remember 1993 (the last time ND competed for a NC). Think about it: how attractive is South Bend in the middle of December when it’s snowing, freezing and the town is got nothing to offer for excitement. And the gals ain’t exactly Southern Belles. Try selling that to an 18 yr old that could give 3 shits about ND’s history & tradition.
Borat also insists that you can only be a fan of a team if you graduated there. Another idiotic comment. If that were the case, based on NDs limited enrollment, I don’t think they’d have the following they have today. Based on that logic, I guess you can’t be a Chicago Bears fan unless you got drafted by them.
Lunch has to get some psychiatric help. You’re capable of making decent points but you have some serious issues regarding Weis. Can you say “restraining order”? Dude, it’s college football not the Cold War & you fellas are way too obsessed w/ labeling EVERY ND fan as arrogant & childish (pot let me introduce you to kettle). Every anti-ND post on this blog is the ideal example of childish. Yeah, Weis is fat, but you’re just big boned, right or is it a gland problem that’s out of your control?
And thank goodness for Jeff’s clarification of the issue; finally some sanity. You haters love to bag on the “service academies”. ND played 7 bowl-bound teams winning 5 of them. Army was added at the last minute b/c when NCAA expanded to 12 games, Army was the only one that would agree to travel to South Bend on that particular date w/o requiring a return visit by the Irish.
OF course they’re not back to elite status…yet. ND proved this in their embarrassing losses to Michigan, USC & yes, most likely, LSU. For you troglodytes who insist that every ND fan is delusional w/ blind faith, I think ND will be lucky to stay w/in 3 TDs of LSU (final score LSU: 42 ND: 21). If Les Miles can’t blow ND out, he should lose his job on the spot. After the embarrassing blowouts to OSU in the bowl & Mich. & USC this year, I have reserved the right to be realistic about their chances vs. LSU.
God Bless America.
Hilarious that Illinois fans care so much about a ND blog. The point that Frank has made has not once been countered in any of the worthless responses.
The point Frank made is regarding the NFL listening to collegiate coaches.
And yet, people can make fun of Charlie’s weight, make fun of ND winning 10 games (hmmmm….), make fun of going to a BCS bowl (hmmmm…), make fun of ND’s schedule (though it is the 18th toughest in the country, and the three service academies are a whole lot tougher than facing D1AA or D2 schools like the Big 11) but they don’t have an explanation for Zook’s ludicrous comments that the NFL doesn’t listen to college coaches regarding NFL prospects.
That is the point of Frank blog and not one person can argue against the notion.
Illinois, congratulations on getting some great prospects, but in five years, your school, your fans and your coaching staff will owe apologies to these young men and their families for underachieving in the wins columns and not developing these players and making them ready for the NFL.
As I said earlier…. I don’t think you will find any level headed fan out there who would trade Notre Dame’s recruiting class for Illinois’ right now. I did mention that I give Zook credit for being able to recruit these guys, but the main point of the post was that such as a statement as “They don’t listen to those college coaches” is asinine and out right wrong.
Zook was able to successfully able to negate one of Weis’s staff’s biggest draws for a recruit – the NFL connections and for that I’ll give him credit, but to say that NFL coaches don’t listen to college coaches is an outright lie.
Thanks for taking the bait Illinois fans, you were quicker to mobilize than most of the opposing fans who can’t seem to get enough of Notre Dame football websites. Bravo.
Just for the record:
He (Zook) came to the Gators from a position as defensive coordinator for the New Orleans Saints, where his units led the NFL in quarterback sacks over the 2000-2001 period with 119, and ranked third in the NFC in total defense in 2000. He coached for three NFL franchises (Pittsburgh, Kansas City and New Orleans), including division championship teams with the Steelers in l996-97 and the Saints in 2000.
Another fine example of a bitter whining ND fan. Get over it and concentrate on your own team this year after crying in your eggnog
Do you need a tissue for your tears?
The depths Domer fans will travel with regard to Zook and Illinois football is mind boggling. Notre Dame has a good football coach, certainly from an ‘X’ and ‘O’ standpoint. Is Charlie a great recruiter? I’m not so sure, we shall see I guess. He has the big university name behind him, but you need to bring more to the table than that, as we are now witnessing. I’ve read that Charlie is arrogant and has pissed off more than a few high school coaches along the recruiting trail. That doesn’t help his cause. I don’t dislike Notre Dame per se, but the fans of Notre Dame, most of whom I’m sure were not students at that distinguised university, are some of the most arrogant and childish people I’ve ever come across.
In terms of your jealousy of Illinois football, get over it! I assume the Illini will battle the Irish for many recruits over the coming years, and based on what we have seen this year, chances are the Irish will lose most of those recruiting battles!
“Excellent response”
Worthless blog gets worthless response.
But continue to enjoy beating up a cake schedule, getting your shit pushed in by the only legitimate teams on it, going to a BCS bowl you don’t deserve, and then getting your shit pushed in again.
The theme here does come across like sour grapes. I think losing out on a player with the potential of Martez Wilson has hurt the feelings of ND fans. But do we know the the spirit in which Zook made those comments? Was it anti Weis? If you read the kids own words maybe Zook was trying to say that he should not settle for riding the coatails of Weis and ND but instead work hard and maybe be part of something good going on at Illinois. After all, high NFL draft picks can come from anywhere not just winning, tradition laden programs.
I am a noted Charlie Weis basher but it is not personal, I have never met the man. My reasons are articles like this one by Frank. He mentions every NFL coach that Charlie has ever been involved with but since when did name dropping ever get a kid drafted?
Zook is criticized for telling the kid that NFL contacts and a winning team are not what he should be looking for in a coach. There are a ton of great college coaches without NFL contacts or experience although I am not making any judgement of Ron Zook.
Based on the theme of this article why don’t they take the top 150 high school players and let Charlie Weis and Pete Carroll take what they want and let the rest fight over the scraps? Personally, I don’t think Pete Carroll, for all his NFL experience, is a great coach. He may be the best recruiter of all time.
Once again I come across as hating Charlie Weis but I have not read any of his comments on this matter, only those of ND fans. It is just a little insulting to all the other great coaches that when a highly coveted recruit chooses a program other than ND something is wrong. The coach is a “snake-oil salesman”, he is lying for his own gain, he is jealous, or he is making assinine comments to recruits. Come on, not everybody thinks that ND is the be all and end all.
My favorite comment though is the one about being jealous of back to back BCS bids. Is that how far ND has fallen that they have to hold that over ILLINOIS! Besides, most people don’t even think ND deserved a BCS bid this year and that they only got one because of their sweetheart deal whereby they get a BCS bid even when there are more deserving teams. Frank, don’t sweat losing Martez Wilson because high recruiting classes do not guarantee National Championships or even top 10 teams. As a ND fan maybe you will correct me but when ND started their slide in the 90’s were they not still pulling in top 5 recruiting classes? Have faith in your coach, he has more than enough good players coming in but he can’t have them all, you have to play against somebody. And with those great recruiting classes come greater expectations. While criticizing Ron Zook may be valid, I don’t know, we will find out just how great Charlie Weis is.
allowed me to savor martez’ decision a little more this morning.
Maybe Charlie the Tuna might have some influence with NFL coaches if he can win a bowl game someday. LSU is going to beat the sh1t out of you and I will be laughing the entire time.
Cut Frank some slack…this is a dead time of year (for NCAA f’ball) & there’s not a lot of hot topics right now in college f’ball.
Just the 32 bowl games that are going to be played the next couple of weeks. You could at least talk about the shellacking that ND is going to take against LSU…There’s got to be some news there.
Look, Martez was sold on Illinois 3 weeks ago. That’s way before Charlie brought his fat ass and his 7 other merrymen to Simeon to change Wilson’s mind. so give it a rest. be happy with what you’ve got and leave Illinois alone. I know it’s so hard for you guys to understand that other universities are out there recruiting high school players as well.
I’m not to sure why Frank wrote this essay. I’ll cut him some slack but….?
I recall that Pete Carroll had a tough time in the NFL (not sure of record) or at least had a mediocre career with the Jets and Patriots and had a slow start at USC; now look at what he’s done. But if Zook is selling the story these top-flite coaches in the NCAA don’t have language with the NFL he’s certainly lying for his own gain, and these high-school students can be easily manipulated and judge poorly because of a laid-back run-of-the-mill snake-oil salesman, and that is a shame.
Zook has shown to be very poor in game-day decision making; lets hope he hasn’t lied to these kids and can back his promises. Otherwise these student athletes have waisted much if not all of their college careers on lies, and they will be the big losers.
Yeah, give Zook his props for reeling in some top talent & probably putting Illinois as high as they’ve ever been ranked in recruiting. He & his staff must really be talking some smack b/c he’s got nothing to sell but smoke & mirrors. My best guess is that he’s using the fact that freshmen are likely to start right away if they prove they’re worth. He can point to the frosh QB as an example.
Unfortunately for Zook, he’s not paid to finish in the top 10 in recruiting classes, he’s paid to win. I prefer to wait a few years before judging his body of work. He will be given more leeway at Illinois b/c they have no recent winning tradition & he’s not following a HOFer like Spurrier. But he was consistently pulling in a top 3 class at Florida & turning in 8-4 seasons.
Finally, if Weis’ top classes from last year & this year start paying dividends (i.e., legit NC contender), then ND’s success will snowball into even better recruiting hauls. Look no further than USC for proof!
p.s.
Cut Frank some slack…this is a dead time of year (for NCAA f’ball) & there’s not a lot of hot topics right now in college f’ball.
No one’s doubting ND’s proud tradition Frank, but If you’re so darn confident, then why write a whiny, elightest post like this? Sounds defensive, hurt, and nervous to me Frank, just like these worthless columnists, recruiting ANALcysts and so-called journalists. Which makes your silly post (and theirs) all the more perplexing. The bottom line is “WHY?” From my point of view Frank, you seem very insincere and immature.
I know I’m jealous… Weis has only won 19 games in two years compared to Zook’s impressive total of 4. I’ll take a coach that does something with the talent he has.
I’m also jealous that top to bottom, Notre Dame has a much, much stronger recruiting class than Illinois.
Have fun in the…. oh wait, Illinois is home again for the holidays. I guess that beats back to back BCS bids…
I think somebody is Jealous.
“whaaaaawhaaaaawhaaaaa!”
Excellent response… thanks for reading.
Dumbest blog ever.