Brady Quinn for Heisman

– Troy Smith: #75
– Brady Quinn: #63

– Troy Smith: #66
– Brady Quinn: #61

– Troy Smith: #69
– Brady Quinn: #60

– Troy Smith: 0.466
– Brady Quinn: 0.529

#1 Ohio State (11-0)

(5-5) Northern Illinois
– Pass Defense: #116 (261.4 ypg)
– Total Defense: #96 (385.2 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #65 (22.0 ppg)

(9-2) Texas
– Pass Defense: #108 (249.0 ypg)
– Total Defense: #22 (291.0 ypg)
– Scoring Defene: #30 (18.4 ppg)

(5-5) Cincinnati
– Pass Defense: #55 (195.1 ypg)
– Total Defense: #41 (306.8 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #40 (19.7 ppg)

(7-4) Penn State
– Pass Defense: #39 (182.1 ypg)
– Total Defense: #13 (276.6 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #15 (14.9 ppg)

(6-5) Iowa
– Pass Defense: #58 (196.1 ypg)
– Total Defense: #62 (330.2 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #32 (19.0 ppg)

(4-6) Bowling Green
– Pass Defense: #44 (185.4 ypg)
– Total Defense: #63 (330.4 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #101 (30.0 ppg)

(4-7) Michigan State
– Pass Defense: #98 (231.9 ypg)
– Total Defense: #86 (367.3 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #100 (29.5 ppg)

(5-6) Indiana
– Pass Defense: #94 (225.4 ypg)
– Total Defense: #105 (399.4 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #112 (33.3 ppg)

(5-6) Minnesota
– Pass Defense: #105 (243.5 ypg)
– Total Defense: #108 (404.5 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #79 (24.6 ppg)

(2-9) Illinois
– Pass Defense: #27 (174.4 ypg)
– Total Defense: #37 (305.3 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #90 (26.7 ppg)

(3-8) Northwestern
– Pass Defense: #82 (216.8 ypg)
– Total Defense: #89 (370.1 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #92 (27.1 ppg)

COMBINED OPPONENT RECORDS (Smith): 55-63 (0.466)
– Average Pass Defense: #75
– Average Total Defense: #66
– Average Scoring Defense: #69

#5 Notre Dame (9-1)

(8-2) Georgia Tech
– Pass Defense: #64 (200.1 ypg)
– Total Defense: #28 (294.1 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #24 (17.4 ppg)

(7-4) Penn State
– Pass Defense: #39 (182.1 ypg)
– Total Defense: #13 (276.6 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #15 (14.9 ppg)

(11-0) Michigan
– Pass Defense: #65 (201.6 ypg)
– Total Defense: #3 (231.5 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #5 (12.1 ppg)

(4-7) Michigan State
– Pass Defense: #98 (231.9 ypg)
– Total Defense: #86 (367.3 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #100 (29.5 ppg)

(7-4) Purdue
– Pass Defense: #87 (220.9 ypg)
– Total Defense: #109 (406.1 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #85 (26.3 ppg)

(1-9) Stanford
– Pass Defense: #25 (173.0 ypg)
– Total Defense: #101 (392.1 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #108 (32.1 ppg)

(5-5) UCLA
– Pass Defense: #79 (215.6 ypg)
– Total Defense: #39 (306.5 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #37 (19.4 ppg)

(7-3) Navy
– Pass Defense: #91 (223.1 ypg)
– Total Defense: #81 (356.0 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #55 (21.6 ppg)

(1-9) North Carolina
– Pass Defense: #34 (179.4 ypg)
– Total Defense: #88 (368.4 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #104 (31.3 ppg)

(4-5) Air Force
– Pass Defense: #52 (193.1 ypg)
– Total Defense: #61 (329.9 ypg)
– Scoring Defense: #64 (22.8 ppg)

COMBINED OPPONENT RECORDS (Quinn): 54-48 (0.529)
– Average Pass Defense: #63
– Average Total Defense: #61
– Average Scoring Defense: #60

– Brady Quinn: 25-36 (69.4%), 287 yards, 3 TDs
– Troy Smith: 12-22 (54.5%), 115 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs

– Brady Quinn: 20-36 (55.6%), 319 yards 5 TDs, 1 INT
– Troy Smith: 15-22 (68.2%), 234 yards, 2 TDs

– Brady Quinn: 45-72 (62.5%), 606 yards, 8 TDs, 1 INT
– Troy Smith: 27-44 (61.4%), 349 yards, 3 TDs, 2 INTs


Troy Smith vs. Penn State
– 12-22 (54.5%), 115 yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs

Troy Smith vs. Illinois
– 13-23 (56.5%), 108 yards, 1 INT

Brady Quinn vs. Michigan
– 24-48 (50%), 234 yards, 3 TDs, 3 INTs

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  1. Dope-Smoking in Ohio, your comments were very un-called for. Regardless of how you feel about OU, please refrain from making such pig headed comments. In light of what Drew Brees, Tony Romo, and Jeff Garcia are doing in the NFL Troy smith will work out fine (if given a chance). In addition, Troy’s beat Quinn in a head to head match up. And he’s beaten every top 10 team except TX while, Quinn has lost every game against top ranked opponents with LSU being the most recent.

    Neutral USC fan

  2. Brady,

    We love you and we all know you should have won the Heisman. Nobody deserved it more than you did. Your character, heart, talent, and honesty goes way beyond that of the crook who won this award. In our hearts, you are the true winner.

    Hoping to see you in Oakland next year!

    The Sanfords
    North Carolina

  3. Ohio State vs. Florida in the National Championship game, I guess Urban Meyer knew what he was doing when he blew off ND and the Irish ended up with sloppy seconds, Charlie-the-wannabe-tuna. If ND is the institution of higher learning that they think they are my question is this – does everybody study history? Because it’s been so long since they were significant that you would have to be a history major or have your head up your ass to think that Ohio State, Troy Smith, and Jim Tressel don’t outclass ND in every way imaginable.

  4. Cade,

    I don’t know that Quinn will fall as far down as Leinart did for a couple of reasons: Leinart had a helluva better supporting cast that allowed him to comfortably sit in the pocket & choose which future NFLer to throw to: Reggie Bush, Steve Smith, Fred Davis or Dwayne Jarrett when he wasn’t deciding which NFL running back to hand off to (Bush & LenDale White). The only thing USC lacked last year was the dominant defense that they’re used to. It was probably due to injuries & NFL defections, but it appears the Trojans are back in that regard this year. Another reason is, I think any unbias observer would agree that Quinn can take a lot more punishment than Leinart. Leinart NEVER had a less than stellar O-Line to protect him. Anyone who has watched Quinn, deduces that for 3 of the 4 years (2005 being the exception) that Quinn led ND, he consistently had the sh** kicked out of him, yet he always got up to run the next play & NEVER missed a game, much less a series due to injury. I know I’m splitting hairs here b/c I believe both Leinart & Quinn will have respectable pro careers & we know neither will hurt for money, but I can’t imagine Quinn dropping down to #7 in the draft. Mel Kiper may have a soft spot towards ND players, but I heard Chris Landry (Fox Sports draft expert & NFL scout)say that Quinn is still the best QB on the board and a top 3 pick (depending on team needs)…even after the USC debacle. My question is this: since Quinn can’t play defense, block for himself, or offer a running threat comparable to Antonio Pittman or Adrian Peterson or Darren McFadden, how is he supposed to beat a superior team like Michigan or USC by himself? See, you see the interception in the Michigan game & I see a catchable ball get tipped to the defender or a pass rush that typically would result in a shut out of most offenses that can’t protect their QB. If your O-Line can dominate the LOS, any average QB can look like a Hall of Famer. Look at all the average QBs who won Super Bowls b/c of their dominate O-Line. The Redskins of the mid 80’s to early 90s are a great example: 3 Super Bowl champs/3 different QBs that will never be mentioned in the same breath as the Marinos, Montanas or Bradshaws. Brad Johnson probably shouldn’t make reservations to Canton, either. GMs aren’t going to downgrade Quinn’s talent b/c he was surrounded by inferior talent. Peyton Manning was always criticized for never winning the big game in college (most notably, never beating Florida) and is still criticized for falling short in the pros. However, no one doubts is skills & overall success as a professional QB. Same goes for Marino.

  5. Brianne:

    Now, of all the athletes who get in trouble with the law, play for great teams, and fail spurn majors in biochemistry or physics, why is Troy Smith alone the subject of your ire? Simple: it has nothing to do with the type of person that Troy Smith is or the team that he plays for, and it has EVERYTHING TO DO with the fact that he is winning the Heisman Trophy and Brady Quinn isn’t. Well Brianne, consider this obvious fact: IT ISN’T TROY SMITH’S FAULT THAT BRADY QUINN ISN’T WINNING THE HEISMAN. IT IS – GASP! – BRADY QUINN’S FAULT!

    Look, Quinn just flat out didn’t do anything to merit the Heisman. 275 yards a game and a 10 – 2 record while beating no one in particular? I hate to break it to you, but lots of guys do similar. Not this year, because this is a down year statistically for QBs and the most deserving RBs (Ray Rice and Steve Slaton) are sophomores, which is why Smith is getting the award pretty much by default. But Quinn’s year this year was really no better than Drew Olson of UCLA last year (3200 yards and 34 TDs for a team that went 10 – 2 with their best win coming against 8 – 5 Oklahoma). And no, Drew Olson did NOT have a better team around him than did Brady Quinn at ND; John Carlson was the equal of Marcedes Lewis and Rhema McKnight and Jeff Samardzija were miles ahead of anything that Olson had at wide receiver. They also had massive injuries on their offensive line, their #1 RB was hurt for almost half the season, and they had the worst defense in major college football! And Drew Olson is just one of the MANY guys whose accomplishments were similar to Quinn’s that came NOWHERE NEAR the Heisman Trophy. Maybe if Notre Dame had been a passing school longer instead of only recently emerging from their long run – oriented tradition, you guys would know what a Heisman Trophy season from a QB looks like when you see one. The only reason why Quinn was ever a Heisman Trophy candidate is A) he plays for ND, B) he was a leading contender last year, C) this was a horrible year for major college QBs statistically, D) Charlie Weis is his coach, and E) he will be a top 3 draft pick and the first QB taken. Remove ANY of those factors, and there is NO WAY that Brady Quinn would be a Heisman candidate at all, let alone the guy who will finish #2. Another example: Eli Manning. Led Ole Miss to 10 – 3, their best record in 13 years, didn’t suffer a single blowout loss (lost to eventual national champs LSU by 3), passed for 3600 yards and 29 TDs. Was the #1 overall draft pick. And if you claim that Eli had great players around him … Ole Miss was last in the SEC in rushing, they CERTAINLY didn’t have 3 future NFLers at WR and TE like McKnight, Stovall, and Carlson catching the ball, and check what they’ve done since he left. And did Manning come anywhere near the Heisman Trophy? Nope.

    Now, had Brady Quinn played as well as he did last year, he wins the Heisman going away. As it is, Quinn threw for SEVEN HUNDRED FEWER YARDS THIS SEASON THAN HE DID LAST SEASON. And Quinn’s team suffered TWO REGULAR SEASON BLOWOUT LOSSES THIS SEASON where last season ND was two plays and 6 points away from an undefeated regular season. So, Quinn’s personal AND team performance regressed from last year.

    Now Troy Smith; sure he is getting it by default. But still, his team’s performance improved: 12 – 0 this year versus 10 – 2 last year. Where Smith’s poor play cost his team in their two biggest games last year (Texas and Penn State) he was dominant in the two biggest games this year (Texas and Michigan). And his personal passing stats improved: more passing yards, a higher completion percentage, and he ALMOST DOUBLED HIS TD PASSES! And if anything, OSU has less talent on offense this year than last because they lost 2 #1 draft picks in Nick Mangold and Santonio Holmes, both of which were the first two at their position to be selected, and they also lost G Rob Sims in the 4th round. The most amazing thing: last year 11 of Smith’s 16 TD passes went to Holmes. This year, he has almost twice as many TD passes, but no single player had more than 9 (Ted Ginn), and even Ginn had 5 of those in the first 3 games. Where Quinn clearly regressed, Smith showed phenomenal improvement as a passer this year over last, and even there you have to consider that he had already made a huge leap from his sophomore year to his junior year. Did that mean that Smith deserved the Heisman? No. But does it mean that he is more deserving than Quinn? OF COURSE.

    And please, end the NFL garbage. Brad Johnson and Tom Brady had 8 college starts between them, but went on to win a combined 4 Super Bowls and earn like 7 combined Pro Bowl berths. So, were they more deserving of the Heisman than outstanding college players who never did squat in the NFL like Danny Wuerrfel and Charlie Ward?

  6. Ok, the Troy bashing is kinda irrelevant, now that he has locked up the Heisman. Communications is what he wanted to study, why should he pick something that’s “harder” or didn’t want to do. Also, athletes usually take communications because they have a better chance of working in broadcast, i.e. they have position tailor made for them called sports analyst. “He’s no stellar person,” you must be kidding. He got kicked out of high school: So, must people that get kicked out of high school don’t even get a GED, yet alone a HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMA AND COLLEGE DEGREE. WOW! He missed an award ceremony, he’s a real jerk! Then, he went out partying the NEXT NIGHT (a night he was probably not busy), not the same night as the event. It seems that some people want to use the words “ghetto” and “thug,” do you’ll even know what these words mean?… NO. I would bet that its your slick way of saying the N word. In regard to the “ghetto” stuff, ND has it share of those recruits,too. ND is about 45 miles outside of Chicago and every good player in Chicago gets recruited by ND, in the last 4 years 3 players from the same “ghetto” school have went to ND. Troy is in no way, shape, or form a “thug”. 1. He’s too religious to be a thug. 2. He would have never got back in school after he got kicked out. 3. The whole money incident would have never happened, he would have either been selling drugs or some other gangster would have gave him the money. However, I would expect a couple of silver spoons to understand the Troy Smith story, but to everyone who was not lived that luxury life he’s a real model. P.S. we can talk in June when Brady drops in the draft like Matt did. Don’t think that GM’s have not taken into fact that Brady has not showed up in big games, especially in a league where every game is pretty much a big game.

  7. To Goldenboy—

    What the f??? does a communications degree do for you? It’s a piece of cake degree that’s all and OSU is a public institution that let’s everyone and their brother in. Get off the Smith bandwagon champ, he’s no stellar person. Getting kicked out of one high school, accepting money illegally in college, and oh the latest one..Getting honored in his home town in Cleveland for a QB award, he was too busy to show up for, but could go out and party the next night (I know, I saw him there), shows a real classy, respectable guy. What do us Irish fans have to get over with Smith..maybe the fact that he has great talent around him and Quinn has had to make it with some subpar atheletes in four years? Are you kidding me…come back and talk to me in June when Brady is a first, maybe second pick in the draft..oh and by the way, what NFL teams want a 5’10 QB who’s listed as 6’1 in the OSU media guide and a thug at that?

  8. Irish Realist:

    I never said that Willingham and Davie were good coaches. I just said that Willingham won more games against good opponents in his first year than Weis has in his first two years. Why? My theory is that Willingham (and Davie) had real potential as football coaches, and while that potential won both guys some games, neither guy was able to cross the threshold and realize it. Fortunately in Weis ND hired a guy who was a good coach already, better than Davie or Willingham was ever going to be. What remains to be seen is whether Weis is a great coach, and the test of that will come when Weis has his own players.

  9. Goldenboy12:

    Troy Smith may indeed be an idiot, but one with a communications degree from a major university who will soon be a Heisman Trophy winner and sign the contract of a first day NFL draft pick. That is something that Irish fans, whose ire towards Smith I honestly do not understand, will have to get over.

  10. Thanks for all the knowledge Irish Realist, it was fun to read and to have some blasts from the past some of which were great, others quite painful.

    To you OSU fans, we don’t care about Troy Smith’s sob stories, shut up, he’s an idiot bottom line, everybody has tough things to deal with, get over it.

  11. Nebraska,

    Chill out & read the post verbatim. Nowhere in it did I ask you to leave (see “not that there’s anything wrong with that”). I just find it interesting that a non-ND fan would spend so much time on one of their boards. BTW, you’re not a chick are you? If that’s the case then I understand why you have selective reading, though your football knowledge is impressive.

    Now as far as what Willingham would have done w/ Quinn & what Weis would do w/ Willingham’s teams…it’s ridiculous to say for a FACT that Weis would fail & Willingham would have done just as well. Those scenarios will never be proven out.

    Why DIDN’T Willingham have anything to work with? I mean you rave about his 1st season success w/ Davie recruits, why no carryover, no consistency & no winning record w/ continued losses to average to below-avg. teams like Syracuse, Pitt & Boston College?

    By the way, 2002 victory over FSU? Weren’t they 9-5. Impressive record. Boston College didn’t even end the season ranked after upsetting ND in the green jersey game at South Bend. I also find it ironic that all these poor recruits from Davie find their way to the NFL (David Givens, Luke Petitgout, Jordan Black, Brennan Curtain, Arnaz Battle, Carlyle Holiday, Julius Jones, Mike Gandy, Rocky Boiman, Anthony Weaver, Maurice Stovall (yes, Davie), Justin Tuck, Billy Palmer & Ryan Grant). They all wasted away in mediocrity under Davie/Willingham.

    Bottom line is that Weis is saddled w/ players from both failed coaches b/c he still has some 5th yr seniors on this squad. I remember when Bob Morton de-committed from A&M to attend ND. What a steal…or not? See evaluating talent isn’t easy for anyone incl. Lemming, Burton, etc.

    By the way, find a team w/ a more front-loaded tough schedule for 2007. Granted it’s too early to tell how these teams will perform, but if ND beats them (w/ a 1st yr QB, no less), then the schedule will be deemed weak & if they lose, then Weis has a long way to go.

    Georgia Tech
    @Penn St.
    Michigan St.
    Boston College (your favorite!)
    Air Force

    Next year may be ugly, but also one year closer to being back in Nat’l Championship contention.

    Take care & don’t stop posting!

  12. Irish Realist:

    Speak the truth and get asked to leave? How is that being “a realist”? I base the fact that Willingham would have gone 10 – 2 against this schedule on the fact that he went 10 – 3 against a far tougher schedule in 2002, and that he did actually have some good seasons at Stanford before he got to ND, including a 9 – 3 one with a victory over #2 Oregon on the road his last year there. As a matter of fact, Willingham would have won 7 or 8 games at Washington this season had his QB not gotten injured. Now as far as Weis adapting the scheme to fit the talent: good luck finding a scheme that would have made Carlyle Holiday, Jared Clark, Gary Godsey, Ronnie Rodamer, Omar Jenkins, Marcus Wilson, etc. effective! Willingham didn’t do that great a job at ND especially in years 2 and 3, but please do not pretend that he had anything to work with.

  13. Quinn doesn’t deserve the Heisman as evidensed by his consistent ball throwing behind receivers and other less desirable locations. Too wrapped up in the NFL draft pick number, Heisman race, and overall publicity. He should of focused on Notre Dame Football wins instead. I’m sure this would have made Weiss sleep a little better after signing a 10 year $33M contract. Hey Charlie, how about getting a running game together and finding some defensive backs with skill? (NOTRE DAME FAN)

  14. Nebraska,

    There’s no way you can correctly predict that Willingham would have gone 10-2 w/ his players. You do realize that after his 2003 class, he was responsible for the 2 worst documented recruiting classes in ND history? There were 3 players that even rated in most recruitniks’ top 20. Willingham, like Davie; thought the aura of ND would recruit itself. Unfortunately, those high school kids weren’t old enough to remember 1993 when ND last was an elite program. Then when the recruits travel to South Bend in December when it’s freezing & see that there’s nothing, outside of football, that would appeal to an 18yr old they choose FSU, Miami, or USC. No beaches,no big city, etc. That’s why Weis was the best choice for the job, and in hindsight; a better fit than Urban Meyer would’ve been. Weis “gets it” when recruiting ND. He sells it to the kids. As a coach, you gotta buy into that b/c it’s all you got. I assume you’ve been to the thriving metropolis of South Bend. Great people, but it ain’t South Beach, Columbus, Ann Arbor, LA, etc. Beautiful campus, but that’s it as far as attractions for an 18 yr old. You didn’t hear about Davie nor Willingham staying behind in LA to recruit why his team flew back home. I wouldn’t wish the ND O-Line or defensive backfield on my worst enemy. I’m sure they’re all class kids who will succeed in life, but as football players, they’re average at best. Remember, Willinghma didn’t even let Samardzija see the field his 1st 2 years, yet w/ 2 yrs under Weis, he breaks or sets most of ND’s receiving records. Same goes for Quinn. And TY’s Def Coord. was worse than minter if you can believe that. Had Ty not been too stubborn to replace both coordinators, he may have righted the ship & still be there. Also, you can’t say Davie’s players were recruited to solely run the option. He changed his offensive philosophy like he was basing it on a public opinion poll. He promised to run a pro-style offense to convince Ron Powlus to return for 5th yr., then he switched to option, then he switched to a mishmash of God knows what, then he finally got a decent offense behind true frosh, Matt Lovechio, who led them to 8 straight victories (if memory serves). Then they get boatraced by Oregon St. in the Fiesta much like Willingham got boatraced by USC 3 times in a row, along w/ embarrassing shut outs at home vs. FSU & Michigan. W/o a doubt, some of the most embarrasing losses ever. That being said, Willingham had the perfect west coast offense QB on campus in the aforementioned Lovechio, but chose to let him transfer & tried to force feed his offense on, as you correctly pointed out, option QB Holiday. The difference between Willingham & Weis, is that Weis would have adjusted his offensive philosophy to fit the talent on campus. That’s what he’s done w/ the players he has now. You didn’t think of the Patriots as the “greatest show on turf” type passing offense did you? He mixed it up perfectly w/ a run & pass game when he had the personnel. By the way, if QBs are going to be judged by compiling 4500 yds & a minor bowl appearance, than 80% of every D-1 QB could qualify as great after 2 yrs. Scouts are the first to say that Quinn was a tough kid that had some raw QB skills, but his 2 yrs w/ Weis has made him a top-5 draft pick. No, Weis hasn’t beat an elite team yet, but he has also beat the teams that he was supposed to (w/ the exception of OT loss to MSU last yr…again no defense). Ty & Bob would play up & down to their competition. Losses to Pitt, Boston college (back on the schedule next year, by the way), BYU, etc. were becoming all to commonplace. I was at the ND/UT game when Willingham was coach. No way ND wins, if Ainge doesn’t separate his shoulder. The PITT game was ugly too…all they had was Larry Fitzgerald and no ranking at the end of the season kind of like last year’s PITT team. And since you mentioned humor, “Funny how you Irish haters like to forget that Willingham won in 2002 w/ Bob Davie’s players”. The press never mentioned that last year when pointing out that Weis was winning w/ Ty’s players. I, for one, haven’t crowned Weis king. If you don’t care for him, fine but Brady Quinn, Jeff Samardzija, John Carlson, Maurice Stovall & Anthony Fasano may beg to differ. I’m not saying they wouldn’t have gotten to the NFL, but they wouldn’t be drafted as high or at all w/o Charlie Weis’ & his offensive staff’s tutelage. All right that’s enough from me…don’t you have a team you root for? You sure are on the ND sites a lot for not being a fan…not that there’s anything wrong w/ that.

  15. Irish Realist:

    The truth is that where Davie has defeated only one ranked team in two years (Georgia Tech, who is BARELY a top 25 team at this point) Tyrone Willingham defeated four in his first season alone, Pitt, Michigan, FSU, and Maryland teams that were quite good. Willingham also beat a very good Washington State team his second year and very good Michigan and Tennessee teams his third year. So, Weis is still six ranked teams behind Willingham. You guys don’t even play BC anymore, I noticed! Looks like you replaced them with a service academy or something? Sorry, but it honestly seems as if Davie and Willingham had it tougher than Weis does now, even if Weis is obviously a better coach and recruiter. You stated above that the Irish’s current players were recruited to run the west coast offense: recruited by Willingham to do so, correct? Meanwhile Willingham inherited option personnel. Willingham had to try and win with Carlyle Holiday, and then had to bench him and play Quinn before he was ready. But Brady was a junior with like 4,500 passing yards and a bowl game under his belt when Weis got him, right? Funny how you Irish fans like to forget that. Willingham was a bad coach and recruiter, but let’s face it: he would have gone 10 – 2 against this schedule also.

  16. Well I can’t say I’m suprised about the USC game; although I’d hope that ND could keep it close. i don’t think any college QB could beat the elite teams like USC, OSU or Michigan if they had to play behind that pathetic O-Line and a run game w/ zero game-breakers. Give Quinn credit for doing what he could when USC blitzed continuously (hint to Coach Minter) and camped out in the ND backfield while blanketing the WRs.

    It’s painfully obvious that ND isn’t up to the same talent level as the elite teams yet. But if you would have told me that Weis would end his first 2 yrs w/ a 19-4 regular season record, I’d have gladly taken it. It sure beats the hell out of the Davie/Willingham era.

    Once he gets the benefit of the caliber of athletes that USC & OSU attract, i believe ND will be back in the upper echelon of college f’ball.

  17. Hey Nebraska, Cade & Paddy! Was the poster, Ryan, who you were referring to when talking about “class”? You know about those glass houses, don’t ya?

    Stay Classy

  18. Ryan:
    Either you had too much turkey and dressing or some bad bitter beer. This is NOT the hate board for OSU. Again, I live in Columbus too and it is fans like you which turn people OFF to OSU. Troy is a great athlete. He actually has an offensive line which protects him. He is accurate. He is good. Tressel is an excellent coach. You have a complete team which is healthy and ready to go. Now do yo feel better Mr. Bitter? Your language is not appreciated here. ND has many question to answer AND fix over time and they will. OSU fans have two jobs-their own and the head coaching position in Buckeye town. By the way, we do not play all the academies each and every year-only Navy. the schedule is diverse and sometimes is heavier than others. Each year is a surprise. You may NOT believe that because of the big 10 ( 11) honestly when will you people learn how to count? the Pac 8 and Big 8 changed their conference names to fit the amount of teams.
    I guess incorrect counting and bad spelling is what is taught at the 54th best academic school in the nation where you are a number taught by someone who barely speaks your language in a class of over 140 in most cases. Yeah, great success rate there. ( See US News and World Report) I DO have respect for your graduate schools but Ryan, you probably do not know what that is since you can’t tell in your drugged out state of mind the difference between blew and blue. You see in the English language we have words that sound alike but are not alike and —–oh never mind.
    Seriously, blockhead Quinn and the Blue and Gold are no threat to your success. But heaven forbid that ANY team Big 10 ( 11) or otherwise might contend for something that Troy Smith or any OSU athlete may deserve and/or be recognized for their accomplishments. You Buckeye fans are so defensive. Your team has beaten ND three times in a row and very soundly. We need a better defense! Our special teams are well—not so special at times. We have weaknesses and strengths.
    ANE like it or not- the rings which Charlie has symbolizes wisdom of the details of the game. Albeit pro, he will get the job done. No doubt you will find something to bitch about then too as most, if not all OSU fans do year in and year out win or lose. Shame on you. Just enjoy your success this year. By the way, your grammar just oozes class and style something which resembles Obetz, Grove City or white trash or thugville. I didn’t say Whoville–that would be a kind place which Columbus is not. ( Except to my bank account that is LOL)

    The latest from the OSU media is that “If we lost the game they ( the BCS ) would put us lower than second. We just recieve no respect from the nation.” Bucks have fear of facing Michigan again. Truth be told, Coach of the year, Heisman winner and undefeated is still not good enough for buckeye fans here. They’ve complained about Tressel at Illinois. They should not have gone three and out in the second half against Michigan. Where was the offense. Ad nauseum. All the hardware in the world and Woddy resurrected from the dead would not suffice for buckeye fans.
    Again, Quinn and Smith are OK. Stats favor Quinn.
    And by the way, as for the racists comments made by ohessyou, Quinn is whiter and slower-get a life. Quinn’s roomate is blacker than me and classier than you will ever be. As for Paddy O Dumbell- like your Buckeye’s that’s fine. However, you need not crack on the Irish. We obviously are not a threat to you. You are just another example of the OSU media product. I DO concede OSU is a better team- this year. More complete but rarely tested. Nobody is “attacking” your precious OSU. In truth, naming it for what it is-paranoid even when it needn’t be. Afraid of the success of others for it might diminish your own. So typical of Buckeye fans- not necessarily the players and coach. I think the two best coaches in the NCAA are in South Bend and Columbus. The thing is after football season, most Domers, unlike Most Buckeyes realize football is a cool thing-it’s just not the only thing.

  20. Brianne is right on nearly every aspect. Again,living in Columbus is enlightening (even with my errors in typing! LOL)
    I wish Smith the best and do not hate the team. OSU is more complete but let’s take a look—-
    While most teams warm up against Southwest Tech and the littel sisters of the poor, ND comes out with the most difficult September schedule-with little or no time to work out the many kinks.Everything that could go wrong aginst Michigan DID go wrong and that’s how it goes sometimes.
    Meanwhile, the Columbus media was building up Northern Illinois ( oh tremble and fear) and then they get Texas during a week in which two of their players were suspended. Hmmmmm–then Cincinnati ( powerhouse -sure they beat Rutgers but what is this schedule?) and Iowa ( highly touted at the time and now look at the unravelling!) A Penn State team that hung with them for over 50 plus minutes and let’s not forget Bowling Green ( game of the the Century in October ) As luck would have it, the bucks did not get Wisconsin in the rotation this year but they got the rest of the Big 10 ( 11) which is actually the Big 3, the mediocre 2 and the lousy 5 this year. Yes, ND had their lighter teams as well but not right off the bat. The script was made for OSU this year in that they DO have strength at nearly, if not every position and the schedule and events are in their favor. That again is the way it goes. I would like to see OSU play a powerhouse in the middle of the season NOT from the Big 10 jus tot shake things up for ALL teams in the BCS. Next year, they have Washington, Syracuse and Akron and you can bet the media will build up the opponet as if it was WW II all over again, and when OSU wins 60-13 it’s a monumental accomplishment. You can hear about it 24/7 365. Fact is, the media in Columbus has nothing else. ( South Bend is not exactly a cultural mecca but it it truly more balanced in its presentation)
    I know I talk way too much but living in Columbus is amazing. I’m laughing all the way to the bank and the mailbox.
    If any of you want comedy, listen to the ABC affiliate in Columbus during football season. The troops in Iraq, the world scene are third or fourth on the docket during football season-even on the fifth anniversary of 9/11. ( I cannot begin to tell you how offended I was at that) Columbus has opportunity for folks like me, but a Buckeye fan I’d never be! with all the world and all it’s strife, Buckeye Media, get a life.
    ( I respect Smith and Tressel, it’s the OSU fans who have this one-eyed view of the world that is more than old. To explain another school ND or anyone else – my brother went to Michigan -they just would not understand. Everyone else is “crazy” or rude or that Rocky Top song is stupid and redneck or why does the Tide have that elephant anyway. SEC is over-rated. The topper is our BUCKEYES get no respect! I;ll survive with my six figure income! LOL)

  21. While Weis may not have his “signature win over an elite opponent” just yet, be assured that it will come sometime w/in the next few years. Keep in mind that he’s been saddled w/ some sub-par recruiting classes that preceded his arrival. Did you know that his current junior class consists of 8 scholarship players? OSU & UM probably have that many 5 star high school all-americans among their approx 25-man class. To be fair, the 2003 class has some of the best skill players ND has had (Quinn, Samardzija, Zibby), but the gaps weren’t filled w/ similar talent along the trenches. In retrospect, NO ONE has expected Weis to do what he’s done his 1st two yrs.

    Let’s not forget what Mark May & Lee Corso (all huge Irish fans…yeah right!) predicted before NDs 1st game in ’05: 1 win and 5 losses after their first 6 games. ND was also nowhere to be found in ANY pre-season poll that year. But Weis molded Quinn into a phenomonal QB & utilized Samardzija, Fasano, & Stovall like we never imagined possible.

    Another point: the 8 leftover juniors & the senior class were recruited to run the West Coast offense. That means Weis didn’t have the luxury of a running game that would give the ND offense both dimensions that they need to keep defenses off balance.

    Now I realize the above are excuses as much as they are facts, but since Weis isn’t about to throw out excuses in his team’s defense, I thought I’d do it. And, yes, he knew exactly what he was inheriting: “a 6-5 team”.

    The press, especially the likes of Mark May, Corso, Craig James, John Saunders, Tim Brando, Trev Alberts, Jason Whitlock, Michael Wilbon, Jay Mariotti, et al, couldn’t wait for the Weis regime to fail…it didn’t happen. Then, overnight, the press (not including the above or the other haters) couldn’t wait to jump on the bandwagon & overrate ND w/ accolades of preseason #1.

    As usual, the truth is somewhere in between. Now the Irish may pull an upset & beat USC and finally win a bowl game versus an impressive Arkansas team OR the Irish may get boatraced the next 2 games. Either way, Weis is one step closer to having the IRISH back…completely back.

    I agree Troy Smith may have rehabbed his image (a necessity if he wants to be a high draft pick). I think the everyday college f’ball fan wonders why Smith only missed one game for taking money whereas Bob Stoops kicked both his starting QB & best O-Lineman off the team for doing the same. By doing so & still going 9-2 (10-1 w/ an admitted Pac-10 robbery in the Oregon game)should make Stoops a shoo in for coach of the year. Now that being said, IF Smith had played that first game last year & established himself as the starter in the Texas game…they could’ve easily beat Texas. Of course, IF my aunt had a unit, she’d be my uncle. But I believe OSU was the better team last year between among UT & USC. Similar to this year, where the press goes on & on how “LSU may be the most talented team in the nation” but their still a 2 loss team that barely escaped a 3-8 Ole Miss team.

  22. The person on this board who said UM should have beaten OSU and that OSU was lucky is not someone who should be commenting on anything about football -apparently. Because you have to maintain some credibility.

    OSU dominated that game for the most part and had it not been for 2 unforced fumbles that led to Mihigan Points and stalled OSU drives, the score likely would have been 49+ to 28+. Michigan maximized its point potential. OSU left a lot of points on the field. OSU didnt even warm up their field goal kicker – and they only punted once. Thats right – the entire game punted once against that vaunted D. Did you watch it? did you miss that? It was either score a touchdown or shoot themselves (no help from teh MichiganD) in the foot. And the game WAS back and forth. But after OSU went up 21-7 it was back and forth between a two score game and a 1 score game. Only once in the second half did Michigan have the ball with a chance to score to take the lead – and the OSU defense held them. 2 other Michigan touchdowns game on huge penalties against OSU. So at best the Crable hit on Smith was an equalizer, but did not determine the outcome of the game. Trust me on this – Michigan may want a rematch – and may get it – but one thing they will not do is stop the Ohio state offense – not with 5 lightening fast receivers, 2 lightening fast and big tailbacks that didnt get touched by the spread out secondary all day, and they certainly cant stop smith. If you want to argue that then again you aren’t a smart football fan. Smith has destroyed Michigan running and throwing in 3 victories over them goign for over 1,000 yards. They had not just three years of game film to look at they had two years of film AGAINST THEMSELVES to look at and prepare with – and in the biggest game of anyones lives couldnt stop him. No Michigan might play them again and sure they might be able to win (OSU wont give the ball 3 times again – or at least UM will give some too in a rematch). but to win Michigan will have to score at least 40+ to win and with Michigan barely maximizing its points already in that game – isnt likely to.

    Again Go Irish – beat SC

  23. I hope Brady Quinn has a wonderful game against USC. It would make for a more interesting final week before the Heisman show, but likely wont make much difference even if he is awesome and wins the game.

    That being said, there are some people on this board doing an incredible disservice to themselves and the Notre Dame (the school, team, fans, etc).

    Show some class to a class program and a class individual like Troy Smith. Everyone makes mistakes in their lives, and few live it under such scrutiny. But nobody has worked harder on and off the field than Troy Smith and to not see, understand, or respect that is to show an enormous amount of disrespect towards your own team and players.

    Troy Smith is not a thug. He is far from it today. His life and the man could not be any different than what has become of Clarett. If you really cared to compare the people (Smith and Quinn) you would have a great deal of respect for Troy Smith. He did get kicked out of a high school, and was then taken in by Tedd Ginn Sr both as a coach and as a father figure/mentor. Smith had a lot of anger growing up and no father. He has been working on his anger for many many years with mentors and counseling. He started to change his life around then. The money he took? Ironically statements from both players and everyone involved concurred that Smith made a really bad choice – to take the $500 for a friend (Roommate) who had gotten in deep and need a quick repayment. Anyone who REALLy does their homework know the answer to this one? Anyone? Beuller? – Troy Smith took the $500 and gave it to his roomate Maurice Clarett. Remember at the time Smith was a nobody and his roomate was everyone’s (about to be fallen) hero. Smith paid a high price. Then Tressel told him I’ll support reinstatement as long as you “dont make me look stupid” – direct quote from both coach and player. Now two years later he has his life completely on track. Has kept his end of the bargain. become the best QB in the country at reading the D and going through his progressions and has the most accurate arm strength. The only reason he wont go ahead of Quinn is because of his real height of 5’10”. But that alone ought to give ND fans a pause and go, wait a minute – Quinn has an advantage there so Troy must be working hard to make up for it.

    By the way a lot has also been said here that Troy Smith is dumb, thuggish, will dishonor/or has the university. Anyone want to guess when Troy Smith will graduate? Oh, wait – he already DID! last spring – and stop it with the horrible school/bad major/cheating crap. Stop that insulting behavior. Give a kid his credit for aligning himself with the right people (Ginn Sr. Tressel, becoming close friends of his offensive coaches who both had heart attacks this summer), changing his game so dramatically to what it is today, and graduating early.

    just stop. Don’t knock Troy. Don’t knock the OSU proram. Tressel cleans house when its necessary. You cant say he kept Troy around just because he wanted to win and let Maurice Go at the same time when OSU would have won the 2003 title with Mo too.

    Brady Quinn is a wonderful QB whose only problem has been that he has never won a big game (not against USC, Not against Ohio State, and Not against a UM team that didnt finish 7-5). He has somethign to prove on Saturday.

    But thats just that he is a great QB for ND and can win one that matters. The heisman trophy is another matter entirely.

    But just stop with the rude and disrespectful talk about Troy Smith, Tressel, its imaginary thuggery. My god have you ever even listened to his players or seen how 99% of them behave in public. No coach has a better bead on his kids than Tressel. Not a single coach. And that has been written about a ton by sportswriters all over the nation.

    There are lots of coaches that recruit kids of questionable backgrounds – but from that point there are two kinds of coaches who do that. ones that exploit them and let them control the program, and the ones (like tressel) who care for them like a father (kicks them out after they blow chances to change – cooper, maldonado, clarett, Irizarry), and who changes them not just as football players but as men.

    To some Tressel’s winning on the field is a direct result of his winning off the field by turning the majority of his players into men.

    Weiss is a great coach by the way – but to be on track to be an all-time great he too, like Quinn, must actually come through in big games.

    best of luck to Quinn and ND this saturday. I hope they make the irish proud.

  24. Why does everyone make Brady Quinn out to be completely immobile? He runs pretty damn well for his size. You make him sound like Dan Marino or Drew Bledsoe in the pocket. Anyone making that comparison has not watched him play much. He’s not Michael Vick, but he anticipates the rush well, and he sure isn’t slow.

  25. I find it very funny reading all of the OSU comments because once again those guys cannot admit the truth. I’ll tell you what the truth is…Yes, OSU is the better complete team this year, but ND has the best offense in the country. I’ll take any match up against Quinn, Smarzija (?), McNight, Carlson, and Walker any day. Weiss is the best and most gutsiest play caller in the country. Yea, we got schlacked by Michigan, but I bet if we played them now, it would be a very different story. Everything that could’ve gone wrong, did. What makes me laugh is even after ND fans have admitted OSU is the best team and unfort. Smith will probably win the Heisman, they can’t let it go….GET A LIFE…The past is the past and OSU doesn’t even come close to ND’s…the following, ratings, contract, national championships, tradition (which OSU has none of)..make it an icon..You either love ND or hate them..there’s no in between. As far as Brady is concerned..he’s means the most to his team, has the best arm, can take his team down the field like no other qb and look at his stats..last time I checked he had more passing yards, touchdowns, and the same amount of interceptions as Smith..and he’s played a better want to talk about Quinn’s team barely winning against sub-par opponents..ok, let’s talk about Troy almost losing to PSU up till the last 2 1/2 minutes, how they almost lost to Illinois..and as poorly as Uof M played, they only lost by 3 points..Smith is lucky to have a job right now..he was kicked out of one high school, only to continue his thuggish ways at OSU…he better thank his lucky stars, Tressel gave him another chance..a hell of a lot of other coaches wouldn’t have..

    Bottom line…ND is back (not a number one team) on the map, Quinn deserves the Heisman, but even if he doesn’t get it, he’ll be drafted number one..Smith will be lucky to go in the first round, if he even plays quarterback at all..

    Irish eyes will be smiling down on ND on Sat. in Southern Cal!
    Go Irish!

  26. hey Quinn rules and smith stinks; that’s all their is to it quinn’s stats are way better than smith’s, no case look at the schedules, and nd’s is so much tougher than OSU. State had a good win vs. Uofm, but Nd will have a HUGMUNGOUS win over southern cal

  27. Hawktime, dude, the argument is no longer that…TROY WON THE HEISMAN THIS PAST SATURDAY. He deserves it.

    Now, given a QB to take my team down the field in 2 minutes or less…we disagree, ’cause I’ll take Brady Quinn everytime. You make an excellent point: Smith actually has a running game. That is so true, which is why Quinn has to pretty much fend for himself b/c he has an average O-Line that has regressed since last year & no discernible run game.

    Anyway, let’s find another topic. Dead horse, etc.

  28. Nebraska, please check your facts. I wasn’t the one who mentioned Troy Smith being a Special Teams player & I acknowledged his worthiness of the Heisman Trophy. For crying out loud, everyone agrees he earned it, can you not move on? You’re all like a salesman (or saleswoman or salesperson…don’t want to offend) who earns the business of a customer, then talks himself out of the sale. And for those who didnt speak up vs. the “racial slurs”, sorry but a so-called adult’s action should speak for itself. It’s up to the webmaster to weed out the bad eggs. Plus just b/c they log on as “Irish fan” doesn’t mean their an Irish fan & you know what I mean. This ain’t exactly airport security. I equate it to a coach, say Jim Tressel, who can only monitor a player for the time he has them. THe coach(es) can’t shadow the player 24-7 and make sure they don’t take money from a booster or get pulled over w/ unlicensed semi-automatic weapons and, similarly; we can’t comb through every post & check for something that may or may not offend. Plus, it’s racist for you to assume that only a certain race of people make up the population which reside in a “ghetto”. There are plenty of well intentioned, hard working Americans of all colors & creeds who have had to make it out of the “ghetto”. For you to assume the poster was meaning “all black kids” is prejudiced on your part. And I didn’t hear the ACLU speak up when the one of you haters stereotyped Brady Quinn: “he’s only a QB b/c he’s white, tall, & slow w/ good arm”. Enough w/ the double standards. Now will YOU & YOUR ILK finally admit the Heisman race is over & your guy won? I did and I haven’t seen an ND poster say otherwise since the Michigan victory. Once again, act like you’ve been there before & do your homework before you wrongfully attach statements to the wrong person.

  29. Do you people realize there’s more to the Heisman than pure stats? Troy Smith has been at his best in the biggest games and is the best clutch QB in college football. Brady Quinn doesn’t have one signature win on his resume since he’s been there. And no, beating a mediocre 7-5 UM last year doesn’t qualify. And OSU actually has a great running game,so they don’t have to sling it all over the field for 4 quarters. That will be the biggest reason for the disparity in stats between the two. If I have to win one game and can pick any QB in college football to do it, Smith’s the easy choice.



  31. Okay I’m really not seeing why everyone thinks Troy Smith should win the Heisman because of the fact that OSU is #1. If Smith wasnt the quarterback, im sure that team would still be #1 or at least somewhere close to it. If ND didnt have Brady Quinn, they would probably be about 4-6 right now. Brady Quinn is honestly the best quarterback in college football. So how about everyone votes fair and looks at the performance of both and not just go on team rankings.
    And im not saying smith is bad at all, hes talented. I just think quinn is the definition of a heisman winner.

  32. Irish Realist:

    The comments trashing Ohio State, Weis, and Troy Smith (including the racial slurs and the class slurs) were on here long before Paddy got on, and this includes some even more vile comments that were on the 3.3% blog that was SOLELY DEDICATED to being derogatory towards Troy Smith! And the saddest thing wasn’t the comments. The saddest thing was that NOT ONE SINGLE IRISH FAN OBJECTED! Not one single Irish fan objected to the racial innuendo. Not one single Irish fan objected to the “ghetto” comments. Not one single Irish fan even credited Troy Smith for earning his communications degree in four years! Now OSU may have a high rate of football players who fail to earn their diplomas, but Troy Smith isn’t one of them! Now of course, Smith’s great performance on the field in and in the classroom does not negate his bad behavior off the field, which led Tressel and the Ohio State AD to give him a “this is your last chance!” warning just before the start of last season and caused him to miss the first game this season and the beginning of the Texas game. And sure, go ahead, fire away, go open season on that. But the other stuff, the “once a thief always a thief” and the cracks against his mother having five kids … stuff like that is really what is used by guys like Mark May and Mike Wilbon to justify their ND hatred, and why so many people are convinced that Ty Willingham didn’t get a fair shake. For all the people who made those comments, shame on you, and for all the people who did not make the comments and yet did not stand up for what is right even after Cade called you and ND’s Catholic heritage on the carpet, that makes you even worse than the people who made the comments were.

    And incidentally, Irish Realist, this whole “Troy Smith playing special teams nonsense”: I mean honestly. Why would you wish anything less than a great NFL career for Troy Smith? What did he ever do to you? You should be mad at Ty Willingham and Bob Davie for recruiting people like Chris Olsen, James Banks, and a bunch of other “5 star blue chip QBs” that never amounted to squat instead of Troy Smith, who was the last guy offered a scholarship by Tressel and wasn’t offered by any other major school. And pardon me, but a guy who goes 29 for 41 for 300+ yards and 4 TDs, then he isn’t playing special teams in the NFL, all right? The kid has thrown for 2500 yards and 30 TDs (67% completions) against only 5 picks, and all you see when you look at him as another Antwaan Randle – El? Well I am sorry if I look at him and see another Joe Montana (whose college stats were actually no better than those of Troy Smith BECAUSE OF THE SYSTEM THAT HE PLAYED IN), but maybe I am looking at him through a different shade of glasses than you are.

    Maybe the Joe Montana thing is a bit much, but I still like the poor – man’s Donovan McNabb thing. Donovan McNabb is taller and has a stronger arm, but Smith actually has better stats (its true, including a much higher completion percentage!) and a better college career (McNabb never won a big game, Smith’s won at least 4 of them; 3 against Michigan and 1 against ND).


  34. You know, this board was having a fairly civil debate (except for McSweeney’s slurs about the south…real original) about who should win the Heisman before Peppermint Paddy got on. What, do the OSU boards not give you enough attention. By the way, no one took personal shots at Tressel/Smith until you & the rest of the ND haters started bashing Quinn, Weis & Co. I also didn’t see any evidence of kool aid consumption on the previous posts. Weis is a great offensive mind & has done more w/ less in these 2 short years, but I haven’t annointed him the greatest coach ever. You actually tuned into the Weis interview on 60 min? 60 minutes is for old washed up lefties that still think communism was a good idea…find something better to do. I think you concoct this stuff b/c your paranoia has you thinking everyone is against your precious Troy & the Buckeyes. In my mind, the subject of this board was to start a debate leading up to the Michigan/OSU match up…that’s when your comments would have mattered. It’s over dude, Smith did what he had to & he’ll get the trophy. As soon as the final second ticked off the clock of the OSU game, you’re on this board screaming maniacally about ND fans still not acknowledging Smith as the rightful recepient of the trophy. Why don’t you start a board about how he deserves the Nobel Peace Prize, too. Your inferiority complex really needs to be addressed: “my career is better than yours” (what are you 10 yrs old?); throwing the word ‘class’ around like it originated at OSU. Plus you can’t take a jab as easily as you throw them out…lighten up. Your team is w/o a doubt the best in college f’ball this year, so for Pete’s sake, ACT LIKE YOU’VE BEEN THERE BEFORE. And BTW, it’s 2006, no one wears sweaters anymore.

  35. Hey Paddy, no one put a gun to your head before you graced us w/ you brilliant, unbiased knowledge. And would you & your ilk take your damn blinders off. NO ONE HAS DENIED YOUR PRECIOUS TROY THE HEISMAN TROPHY. D

  36. Ambulance Chaser, Paddy, and Cade…

    It’s the three monkees one each covering their eyes, ears, and mouth. How lucky we are have them giving us their opinions. Thanks for spending your busy day letting all us Irish fans know what is exactly contained in the space where most people have a brain. For the three of you, that space has a “Vacant” sign. The debate on which QB and University is best for 2006 can and will go on until Jan. 8, 2007. After that you will be able to see Brady on Sundays playing in Pro Football Stadiums, Troy possibly on special teams, Tressel visiting the ghettos, Charlie landing the top prospects, and the University of Notre Dame playing on NBC….Face it facts are facts. Go IRISH

  37. Paddy whats his name….Mich SHOULD have beaten OSU…OSU was lucky and any idiot would agree with that…so now if ND goes to LA and kicks butt…(NOT win by one) THEN ND has to be in the mix…ND shoulda beaten Mich …GO IRISH I am a BSU grad BS, and MA that and $1.87 gets me a Starbucks coffee

  38. Why?

    WHY are you living in the past? And what does an ND’s chances for employment have to do with Troy Smith and the Heisman? You sound like a child, to go through life defining yourself by your diploma.

  39. To: Paddy O’Douchebag

    Why are you on this site? Oh that’s right there is no OSU site to write your BS statements. You mean you actually graduated from OSU, wow! Tell you what you put your degree in “cultural studies” or “health and welfare” against an ND graduate, guess who gets the job (not you).
    By the way there is not a bowl out there that would not love to have the Irish, why? 1. largest audience not in U.S. but in the world. 2. Greatest program with the most storied history 3. they are not some “schlep” state University with a not so storied past (“Woody don’t hit a football player or “Maurice I don’t have enough guns in my car”)who have a longer criminal record than number of football graduates. Alas, you and Cade should get together for draft beer at a pub on High St. and torch a few couches together and celebrate being OSU fans. I guarantee no one else will care about you or your opininons.

  40. Let’s be fair here for a second. What more does Troy Smith have to do for you guys to concede. He gave Brady Quinn a lesson in a head-to-head matchup, OK that was last year, but now after carving up the best defense college football has to offer you guys still won’t give him the credit he deserves. I am sorry but that has nothing to do with TV hype or pre-season claims. I didn’t want to see the Buckeyes have to play ND for the National Championship because I don’t think ND could hold up their end of the bargain but now I think that that may be the only way to prove once and for all that Troy Smith is the best college football player this season. I just don’t see why it should have to come to that when 99% of the population knows that he deserves the Heisman but maybe that would put an end to the crying in South Bend. If ND got their shot at the title and Brady Quinn could go head-to-head again would ND finally admit to being second best on both fronts? I didn’t think so.

  41. I’ve known many ND grads and for the most part they don’t have the holier than though attitude that so many on this board exhibit. Whenever it does show itself, it’s safe to assume they’re losing or have already lost whatever argument they’re trying to present.

    Re: the Heisman. It is unfair that every year there is one or two players who are chosen before the season has already started as the heisman contenders. But, I think any objective observer, taking into account the totality of the circumstances, would say that Smith deserves it this year.

  42. The case for the Heisman Trophy is always forced on us by TV HYPE. Who is the best player in College Football? That premise really goes out the window when the best players in college are not considered. Vinnie Testaverde is where I left being interested in who wins a Heisman. Vinnie was a mediocre to decent QB on a very good team. Was he the best the college game had to offer? Not even close, but all that season all we heard was Vinnie Testaverde’s name being pushed on us. That kind of choice tells me that the ones who choose the best player do not have the best knowledge of the players in the game in any single year. To start out in August making claims that so-and-so are the best in a season which hasn’t been played seems deeply limited and shows it is all a facade to sell TV time. Good luck Brady, and if you don’t receive the Heisman you’ll always be remembered as top notch.

  43. Fat Boy? What does that mean? Henne played his best game against ND’s flag football defense, are you kidding? It is not Troy Smith’s fault he has more talent around him than Brady Quinn, the Heisman voters did not penalize Leinart or Bush for that, it seems like you are the only one who cares about that. I did not say that Musberger was an expert, the comment was made only to show that there are people out there that have not drank the Charlie Weis Kool-Aid. I think he has been built up into something he is not. What exactly has he done? They still haven’t beaten anybody yet, next week is another test, somewhat because USC seems to be up and down, let’s see how they do. The Buckeyes only have one JUCO, on D and he doesn’t start, and illiterates? What about walk-on Antonio Smith who received an academic scholarship to attend OSU? Granted it’s not ND and he is no Rudy but … I agree with Cade, show some class. You guys rip Troy Smith, Jim Tressel, and all of The Ohio State University actually, with personal shots all the while your coach, your savior, is an easy target but not once have I or any other Buckeye fan taken personal shots at him. If you are waiting for Jim Tressel to pay the piper you are in for a long wait, he is class all the way and so is his program. You are so green and it has nothing to do with your sweater, it’s called envy.

    As for my career, I was not fortunate enough to go to The Ohio State University, but I would definitely put my career up against yours. I am a fan of the Buckeyes and have been since 1974 because I like Big Ten football. I actually feel bad making all these negative comments about ND because I know in my heart that not every ND fan is as big a jerk as you are.

    P.S. The crack about Guiness was a joke, if you didn’t like it fine, but don’t insult my intelligence and show your lack of same by lamely trying to make it look like I think all ND fans are from Ireland.

    Yours Truly
    Ohio State Fan (with taste, class, another Heisman, and another National Championship)

  44. Cade, time to get off your soap box and stop using politics, GOD, and all the other junk. Comments were made as a response to your last blog, so please save your confession for chuch, if you actually know where one is located. Invalid? Do you live under a rock or just smoke it? Thanks for showing the ND fans everywhere the little intelligence and class a Buckeye fan has and will always have whether you win a trophy or not.

  45. Dope-Smoking in Ohio, thank you for your comments. It is truly amazing how degrading some of the stuff SOME ND fans have put on here is. The same type of stuff that has contributed to one of the blogs on this site to be shut down already. Comments like yours are completely invalid, and do nothing but make you look bad, ND fans look bad, and brings down the integrity of ND. What’s even more amazing is that it is coming from fans of a FAITH-BASED school. I know “the good book” doesn’t condone that stuff. “Only God can judge,” one day ND, OSU, and whoever fans will have to face him, and good grades, ACT scores, and money won’t get you into his “institution.” Also, some ND fans have shown that they feel ND is far superior to everyone on every aspect. This is the same mentality that makes America the most hated country in the world. The same mentaility that has caused “US” to lose thousands of INNOCENT lives, at U.S. embassys, on 9-11, and in Iraq. If ND is truly superior, then rise above the garbage, become GOOD leaders, and help make this country better for our children, grandchildren, and so no.

    It seems that Smith will win the Heisman, but hats off to Brady Quinn, he played good this season. College football fans should feel lucky to have 2 great QBs competeing for Heisman again this season.

  46. The Heisman is Troy Smith’s… good game. But honestly, why are there so many Ohio State fans on ND’s website? How’d that managerial accounting exam go? The world needs ditch diggers too, ya know.

  47. No idiot, they did just what I thought & I predicted it before the end of the 1st half…where were you fat boy? I mean they gave up 500+ yds in offense. I just stated the facts: Chad Henne played his best game of the year vs. ND & ND helped Henne’s cause w/ 5 turnovers.

    Now my memory gets worse w/ age, but I don’t recall any of the Irish fans on this blog saying that Smith didn’t deserve the Heisman if he TCB vs. Michigan. Their cases were made on the possiblility of OSU losing & Smith having a sub-par game. Give the guy the trophy & go back to your OSU circle jerk. But since you’re so obsessed w/ objectivity, it’s obvious to any fair-minded person that Quinn did much more w/ less than any QB in the top 10. Quinn doesn’t have the O-line, the power/slasher running tandem of Pittman/Wells, nor the defense to support his efforts..

    Also, I think I’d prefer anyone but Musberger singing the praises for my coach. He’s not exactly a respected expert in the college football game. How can you not throw up in your mouth when listening to his gibberish? He’s an idiot. He obviously gets his knowledge from SportsCenter highlights & knows nothing about the game & says whatever is politically correct.

    It’s not hard to be the best play caller when you can recruit JUCOs & illiterates who will take a pay cut when/if they go pro. I have no problem giving the Heisman to Smith & the National Championship to OSU but Tressel will pay the piper one day soon. His track record w/ recruiting character athletes doesn’t look to good according to the link that Goldenboy left…check it out.

    Now it sounds like you may need to log onto EBAY & look into bidding on a life b/c your GED obviously hasn’t afforded you a decent career and you live your life through a bunch of amateur athletes who don’t care that you are the captain of your flag football team. But, hey, you’re an OSU fan so you obviously have class & taste, so keep doing what you’re doing.

    p.s. You do realize that Irish fans aren’t really from Ireland…right? I mean the Guiness crack…you’re brilliant!

  48. Hesiman race? What heisman race? Ha ha ha, Irish fans can now go cry in their Guiness, that’s right, Troy Smith is the Heisman tropy winner, OSU’s seventh and the only school with a multiple winner, and there is nothing you can do about it but I am sure you will try – with tears and begging. Am I wrong or does ND play Michigan just about every year and still no mention here about the passing of the legendary Bo Schembechler? You guys are sore losers, with the emphasis on loser, with no idea what it means to be a true rival with respect for your opponent. I guess that comes from being nomads, a member of no conference but free to roam the country and spread the ND mantra. It must have killed you guys when Musberger said that Tressel is the best play caller he has seen. Haven’t we been led to believe that that title belonged to Charlie Weis? After all, he has told us so and 60 minutes told us so. Troy Smith today ended the last argument that ND fans had, in their minds anyway because to most objective people it was already over, when he filleted the Michigan D, something the Mighty Quinn could not do. So please, no more tears or sour grapes, accept the Heisman voting however it turns out and then put all your energy into an early Heisman campaign for Jimmy “Limo” Clausen. I have just one more favor to ask, please don’t make the Buckeyes have to face the Irish because the only suspense would be – can the Irish D keep the Buckeyes O under 1,000 yards. You have censored my past comments and removed my posts because in your heart you know what I am saying is correct and it bothers you, it should because you are passionate about ND football, but I promise to make no more comments as I shouldn’t be on here anyway. Just one last comment – I am glad that Michigan didn’t give up on themselves like the fairweather fan, Irish Realist, yes he was a Michigan fan today. If you watched the game objectively I think you would see that Michigan DID show up and never gave up. Thank you in advance for allowing my comments.

  49. it’s beautiful to see how dedicated the ND fans are to Quinn, but this is a no brainer to anyone with a vote (who doesn’t live in South Bend that is). Only team to beat 2 #2’s in one season, undefeated, will play in the nat’l championship, and beat Michigan after they manhandled ND. And I think most people with half a brain know that OSU would destroy ND.

  50. Good job, Michigan. Way to not show up. As I figured you come in & get punked. Well, the trophy is yours, Troy & it’s not even halftime. Maybe, your bowl opponent will give you some decent competition. Say goodnight Lloyd…better win the Rose Bowl. Don’t worry they won’t let OSU play in that game.

  51. Please, anyone could “break down a defense” behind that O-Line w/ a world-class athlete catching passes and another running the ball. He’s a great QB, but his production vs. the worst teams in the Big 10 was below average for a supposed lock for the Heisman. He should’ve put up at least decent #s in his sleep vs. those inferior teams. Instead, his defense took control & won the game. Plus, he’s the closest thing to a prolific QB that OSU has had in a long time, maybe ever. Admit it, you guys put some great players in the NFL, but you’re not known as QB U. Even michigan has you beat at that position historically.

    I think the Texas game put Smith on the map for this year b/c it was on national TV & his team won handily vs. an overrated Texas defense & a freshman QB playing in his first ‘real’ college football game. The OSU defense is what impressed me in that game, Smith was simply a game manager. Now, if OSU beats Michigan (which they should easily), then the trophy is his b/c he managed his team to an undefeated season & no other player really stepped up to blow the voters away. And before, you start, yes I’m afraid Texas is just as overrated as you say ND is. Look at UTs schedule & it’s eerily similar to ND’s as far as strength. They make heroic comebacks vs. average teams like Texas Tech & Nebraska and they’re hailed as being resilient. ND has unfathomable comebacks vs. average teams MSU & UCLA and they’re labeled as unimpressive.

    Plus you obviously have a lot of faith in Quinn, if you thought ND still had a chance to come back so late in the UM game before he dropped the ball & it was picked up & run in for a TD. It was ugly, but, at that point, a non-factor.

    I don’t know about your stereotypical racist jab about Quinn (white QB, so he must have a great arm, but slow as molasses), but if there were statements stereotyping the Buckeye QB regarding skin color, all you limp-wristed bleeding heart liberal Wolverine & Luckeye fans would be crying for the ACLU to intercede. But you’re right, short QBs have dominated the NFL landscape for decades (Doug Flutie, Pat Haden, Dieter Brock…the list is endless).

    But like you (we agree!), I could care less about the NFL. If college teams were judged by how many men they put in the league, North Carolina would be in a BCS game.

  52. Cade, Smith took money because he is from the inner city, his parents did not know about birth control (4 siblings), and once a thief always a thief. Tressel knows what he gets when he recruits from the ghetto (criminals and bums). They play 2-3 years at OSU, don’t receive a diploma only a criminal record. You and your other jealous OSU needs to smoke some more “weed” and try to hide from the truth. Also, “we all don’t take money if offered illegally”, if you and all your other GED OSU fans do that’s OK with me. We’ll see you at the mailbox first of the month for your government checks.

  53. I really honestly do not care about my QB’s pro career. While I wish every Buckeye success in the pro game, unless they play in for Cincinnati, I honestly could care less. I mean, sure, that’s great that they make money, but it is hardly a point of pride for me when Orlando Pace makes the Pro Bowl. If I ever need to use “draft status” to console me, please tear the Ohio State Sweatshirt off my back and drown me in Mirror Lake. Also, the reasons why Brady Quinn will make a better draft pick seem to be as follows:
    1. He is taller
    2. He is whiter
    3. He is slower
    Seriously, this year Troy has shown AT LEAST comperable arm power and accuracy to Quinn. His ability, coupled with the superior talent around him both on the field and on the sidelines. What you also don’t see in the statistics is the clear advantage in football intelligence this season. Troy is able to break down a defense with frighening efficiancy. Anyone who watched both quarterbacks canclearly see that Smith is trely on a different level than most college quaterbacks in this college game. Even your precious Quinn. Why is GT not a “bad game.” Quinn threw like 40 times, never once hitting the end zone. Since that game, he has not been the front runner. People forget that everyone was throwing around “The Heisman Trophey is his to lose.” ND fans figured only injury would stop him from garnering both that and a national champioship ring. Shit, it took him all 45 pass attempts to beat UCLA. That is not Heisman. An unforced fumble against a rival at home when youre down? That is not Heisman. Troy Smith? That’s Heisman.

  54. Not sure of your point regarding the UNC game, but I’m sure you agree that OSU has a formidable run game & ND has a below average run game. Now the stuff about the pro QBs…I couldn’t care less. Maybe it’s b/c I live in a state w/o pro sports, but I’m 100% college fan when it comes to football. Anyway, I’m sure that part of your argument is intended for MightyQuinn & the others in the dual-threat debate.

  55. This argument demonstrates to me that, at a minimum, the race between BQ and TS should be neck and neck. BQ is superior in total yards and TD-INT ratio; TS better in completion % and passing efficiency. BQ has more heroic performances to his name (UCLA and MSU), but he does have the UM loss on his record. So if the evidence doesn’t support TS as the obvious choice, why does ESPN keeping saying its his to lose?

    One reason: ESPN (ABC) wants to beat NBC’s ratings and that means downplaying Notre Dame.

    If TS dominates tomorrow, and BQ struggles against USC, TS deserves it. Right now, it should be neck and neck.

  56. I just passed a drug test. Irish realist you are so right, ND does finish teams off with the pass. Only because they’ve had to to win those close games, I don’t think they finished UNC off with the pass. As for the Manning vs. McNabb, how can you be sure that EVERY GM would want Manning? Manning is a great stat QB, which he should be considering the talent around him. However, McNabb is a great stat QB as well, plus he a better winner. Sure the Colts are on the verge of trying to go undefeated again, but Manning has never won the big game. He has no state champ. from high school, no nat’l champ. from college, and no Super Bowl nor AFC champ. appearances in the pros. Which leads to another good discussion for this topic, why are pocket passer consider better than dual-threat QBs? During a recent Pro Bowl players were asked about aspect that would make the perfect QB and the QB that had the best of these aspect. 3 out of 5 of the aspect belonged to dual-threat QBs. Also, there are many pocket passer in the NFL but only about 4-5 are elite QB. Whereas, there only 6 dual-threat QBs in the NFL and 3 are elite. Dual-threat QBs are truly something special, just look at how Young “ran” Texas to back-to-back Rose Bowl victories. Also, offense consists of 2 things passing and running, wouldn’t a player that can do both be better or more desirable than a player that can only do one. Compare that to anything, you would rather have a girl with a cute face and nice body than one with just a cute face.

  57. Manning is all about the stats, its the QB’s job to lead his team and win games and he also wins, just not the big ones, ask Tennessee fans. Say whay you want about Troy Smith and the fact that he has a great team around him but the real fact is he is 24-2 as starter and the Buckeyes would not be 24-2 during that stretch without him. With him fully prepared for Texas last year the Buckeyes are probably defending National Champions right now. He rises to the occasion in big games, a trait that makes him worthy of the Heisman trophy and one that I am not so sure that Brady Quinn has exhibited. That does not make him a bad QB but when you are talking about an award to honor the best player in college football I think that is what separates the two, not some obscure statistical comparison which we all know (even those who did not go to ND!) can be manouvered to favor both sides of any argument.

  58. Not to shift focus from the argument at hand, but my comments about Manning and McNabb had nothing to do with race. Ask any NFL GM who they’d rather have leading their team and they’ll tell you Manning. That’s nice that McNabb led his team to 4 straight NFC championship games, he’s definately a great quarterback. But he still has exactly the same amount of Super Bowl wins as Manning – zero… and I will be the first to admit OSU is a much more complete team than ND.

  59. You’re the one that needs drug testing. Yeah, a running game is a PART OF FOOTBALL & ND doesn’t have one. If they did, Weis would most definitely do it. He says so most every damn game that he would prefer to establish the run (which they rarely can) & finish the team off w/ the pass. The point is that ND is, in most cases, one-dimensional which makes it pretty damn easy as a defense to know what’s coming. Put pressure on the QB like Michigan = Game over. Sometimes, the closest Weis can get to a ball control “run game” is hitting his receivers/back on screens.

  60. Smith doesn’t have to do pass alot because OSU is a great running team. They have 3 good running backs, -exactly, so first of all with the good running backs surrounding Smith it sets up play-action and the deep ball much better, a luxury Quinn does not have. Brady Quinn and his wideouts are doing it on there own, without a running game. This is the craziest thing I have heard. 1, a running game is not a luxury, its PART OF FOOTBALL, if you can’t run the ball that’ just too bad. Also, a running game wouldn’t be utlizied in ND’s offense or they way they’ve played. 2, OSU has fast recievers and good O-line, so the deep ball is there regardless. 3, a running game doesn’t make the deep ball better off play-action, dumb ass DBs do. DBs are taught to play pass first and when bite on play-action fakes they are not doing their job. Unless your talking about teams putting 8 men in the box, which not team has done to OSU. 4, even if ND had a running game that setup play-action and deep balls, this would only mean that Quinn would have higher passing yards, which he already does.

  61. I’d have to disagree w/ Nebraska’s assessment that he didn’t have a great performance in last year’s USC game. The guy can only do so much.

    After scrambling for the go-ahead touchdown, he left the field for the final time w/ ND ahead of USC. So maybe if ND had the benefit of a better defense which could have prevented Leinart from the last minute drive, the outcome would be different. I can’t imagine the outcome being any better w/ Troy Smith or Chad Henne at the helm. Supporting casts being equal, give me Brady Quinn behind center every damn snap.

    In fact, all 11 regular season games last year had ND leading after Quinn & the offense retired to the sideline. I know more is expected when it’s ND, but Quinn can’t clone himself to play defense, run the ball like Maurice Clarett & run block/pass protect like USC’s O-Line.

    And I know the media LOVES to denounce ND’s “weak schedule”, but as of now, they have 6 teams w/ winning records on their schedule (Ga. Tech, Penn St., Michigan, Purdue, Navy & USC). For comparison, OSU has 4 teams w/ winning records on their schedule (Texas, Penn St., Iowa & Michigan). Ironically, Independent ND plays the same amt of BIG 10 teams w/ winning records as BIG 10-member OSU.

  62. Troy Smith was not handed the leadership for the Heisman he took it……the same way he took money from a booster? He’s a complete idiot bottom line and doesn’t deserve to be playing just like Rhett Bomar at OU, nor does he deserve a chance at the greatest award in all of sports.

    Jason White, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Charlie Ward, Gino Torretta, etc. (the list goes on and on) and soon cheating Troy is set to add his name to that list so that it can go on and on some more.

    Now Troy Smith, on the other hand, put Ohio State in position to win against Texas last year, I’m quite sure that Brady put the Irish up 31-28 against USC late in the 4th quarter, I guess that’s not putting your team in a position to win.

    “Troy Smith has outplayed Brady Quinn game in and game out this season and that doesn’t even include the spanking he administered in last years Fiesta Bowl”-so maybe you forgot their stats against like opponents, I watched the PSU game this year and Smith was awful, Brady torched that team. Also, if the NFL has nothing to do with this year’s Heisman race neither does LAST year’s Fiesta Bowl, you must’ve gone to that BRILLIANT state school in Ohio.

    Smith doesn’t have to do pass alot because OSU is a great running team. They have 3 good running backs, -exactly, so first of all with the good running backs surrounding Smith it sets up play-action and the deep ball much better, a luxury Quinn does not have. Brady Quinn and his wideouts are doing it on there own, without a running game.

    “His only negative was a horrible showing against Penn State last year”-and this year, and against Illinois the only difference is, the OSU D is there to bail him out.

    Brady Quinn deserves this award because he is the best player in college football, the best quarterback, and the most important player in the nation to his team.

  63. Those are all good stats, and let’s not forget some other aspects. Notre Dame has not recrruited well the past few years so on top of all this, many would easily say that Ohio State has way better players at every position…. Even more fuel for our argument

  64. What it really comes down to is this. Quinn’s numbers are not what typically gets you noticed for the Heisman. The MINIMUM would be averaging 300 games a year, which would equate to 3300 yards over an 11 game season. Brady Quinn is averaging only 279 yards a game. Consider that Matt Leinart had similar stats in 2004 (3322 passing yards and 33 TDs), and even then people criticized it a “team award.”

    The truth is that there is no one having a truly statistically dominant year outside of Steve Slaton and Ray Rice (who are performing right at the accepted minimum Heisman stat level of 150 rushing yards per game). So, since no one – and by this I mean no one among major college players – is putting up Heisman caliber numbers, you don’t want to just give it to the guy with the best numbers in what is a mediocre statistical year: you look for something else. That would mean the guy who has played the best in big games, especially if his team is #1. And Quinn has not played well in big games this year. As a matter of fact, you have to ask yourself when was the last time Quinn had a great performance or even was the best QB on the field in a big game. Southern Cal? Nope. Michigan? Nope. Bowl games against Ohio State (or Oregon State)? Nope. That is why this Southern Cal game is so important for Quinn: it is his last shot to come up big in a big game. Now Troy Smith, on the other hand, put Ohio State in position to win against Texas last year and beat Texas this year, played well in a victory over ND in a bowl game, and is 2 – 0 against Michigan. His only negative was a horrible showing against Penn State last year. If Smith goes 3 – 0 against Michigan (which no QB has done in 70 years), then Smith is a certified big game QB, no matter what the stats say.

  65. MightyQuinn:

    “It’s clear when watching them play who the more talented quarterback is.”

    It is when both are trying to be dropback passers. It is not clear at all when Smith is running the read option, which for some strange reason Ohio State is not this year.

    “If you want to compare Smith to McNabb, then Quinn would be the equivalent of Manning. Everyone knows who holds the edge in that comparison.”

    We sure do! Donovan McNabb does. He has more passing yards than does Manning this year despite Manning having much better receivers and tailbacks than McNabb throughout his career (Marshall Faulk, Ken Dilger, Marcus Pollard, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James). And oh yes, where Peyton Manning only has 3 or 4 career playoff victories to his credit, Donovan McNabb has been to 4 NFC title games and a Super Bowl. Why Donovan McNabb does not get more credit for his NFL success is a mystery. Then again, when you consider the racially insensitive comments that (presumably) ND fans directed at Troy Smith on the “3.3%” blog entry (which the board had to close), then perhaps not.

  66. Where are people getting this that “Smith has outplayed Quinn” this year? By what measure? We’ve established it’s not stats. Highlight reel plays? Smith has one that comes to mind against Penn State for a TD pass, a pretty run against Illinois I believe, and I’m sure a few I’m leaving off. Quinn has thrown countless thread-the-needle passes that only he could make. It’s clear when watching them play who the more talented quarterback is. If you want to compare Smith to McNabb, then Quinn would be the equivalent of Manning. Everyone knows who holds the edge in that comparison. The only real advantage Smith has is that his defense is far superior – which has absolutely nothing to do with him. If that defense were backing up Quinn no game would be any closer than 20 points. You can’t say Smith has outplayed Quinn just because his defense has helped Ohio State to an unblemished record thus far, compared to a one-loss ND team.

  67. For a Heisman article, there is alot of NFL talk, NFL talk that started in the preseason. This year’s draft should make people think twice about mentioning draft projections. Thus, Reggie was not the first overall pick and Leinart was not the first QB drafted. If you have watched Smith play this season he looks EXACTLY like McNabb, an elite NFL QB. Smith has decided to become more of a pocket pass this year, that’s why he has 1 rushing TD. Example: Iowa game, OSU was on the 10-yard line, Smith moved in and out of the pocket to hit an open reciever when he had a clear rushing lane to the endzone. This is another reason that makes Smith a shoo-in for Heisman. Most dual-threat QB are converted to WR to quickly, just like they’re probably go to do to my guy Demetrius, and the ones that do get a chance take years to become “better pocket passers”. Smith doesn’t have to do pass alot because OSU is a great running team. They have 3 good running backs and the wide-reciever reverse is there best play. Plus, OSU has been WINNING, to the point that OSU gets to “run” the clock out and Smith is pulled out in the 4th quarter. Also, a completion percentage is based on the # of passes COMPLETED in respect to attempts. Because a QB has few attempts, especially if it’s not like 4 or 5, doesn’t mean he’ll have a high comp. %. Quinn plays in a pass heavy offense, therefore his stats will be high. Not to mention, ND has had 2-3 come from behind wins in which they had to throw the ball more than usual. But if you want NFL talk, ND fans love to mention Quinn’s NFL chances, God forbid he blows his knee out within the next 2 games that’ll be gone, too. Not to jinx him, but the NFL is a business and that’s the nature of it. Also, pass heavy college QBs have not faired well in the NFL. Examples: most of the Spurrier Florida QBs; Ryan Leaf, who was ahead of Peyton Manning on alot of teams draft broad; and Tim Couch, who went #1 overall ahead of McNabb and Culpepper, all out the league now.

  68. Ask yourself this question: who means more to their team, Brady Quinn or Troy Smith? The only honest answer is Brady Quinn. The Heisman is for the best player in college football, not the best team in college football. When the dust settles on Saturday OSU fans won’t even be able to claim that OSU is the best team let alone have the best player worthy of the Heisman trophy.

  69. The original post is one of the worst I have ever read. You can try to shape the statistics any way you want but Troy Smith was not handed the leadership for the Heisman he took it. Contrary to the statistics, which ND fans seem to love, Brady Quinn was not “lights out” in games other than the Michigan game. He was average at best in the Georgia Tech game as he continually missed open receivers and wasn’t even close to a Heisman candidate until after the Michigan State game when this mythical ND tough schedule really kicked in. When are they going to add the Coast Guard to their schedule? When someone doesn’t have a valid argument they always use irrelevent comparisons or statistics such as ND academics, NFL draft, etc. What does the NFL draft have to do with the Heisman trophy? I don’t see former Heisman winners like Jason White, Eric Crouch, Danny Wuerffel, Charlie Ward, Gino Torretta, etc. (the list goes on and on) getting measured for those ugly yellow jackets in Canton. Troy Smith has outplayed Brady Quinn game in and game out this season and that doesn’t even include the spanking he administered in last years Fiesta Bowl. So forget all your meaningless statistical comparisons and concentrate on what is actually happening on the field then take solace in the fact that ND is at least somewhat relevent for the first time in twenty years.

  70. How you can even put Troy Smith in the same class as Brady Quinn is beyond me. Strength of schedule has Quinn playing the better competition. Smith has played no one, unless you consider the overrated Texas team they played early on. It’s sad that Quinn’s heisman hopes depend on a game out of his control just because he had one poor game. Troy Smith hasn’t been lights out this year whereas Quinn rebounded from the Michigan debacle with a vengeance. What he has done in four years at ND will go down as maybe the best QB to come out of that school. He deserves this award more then anyone else in college football, but if he gets passed over like ND has gotten passed over time and time again in the polls, he’ll still be a top three draft pick and Troy will be no where to be found.

  71. I agree that Brady Quinn should win the Heisman trophy because regardless of numbers, he’s an all around better quarterback than Troy Smith and everyone will find that out on draft day, regardless of whether or not Smith wins the Heisman, for Brady will be drafted before Smith unless we see the NFL continue with the Texans’ trend of last year. However, the Heisman trophy is going to be determined upon whether or not Ohio State beats Michigan and not so much on any other statistical data, in my opinion, because although Brady didn’t play well against Michigan, ND got slaughtered in that game and wins and losses can make a world of difference in every aspect of college football. Having a W agaisnt Michigan would be the one stat that Quinn could not replicate or overcome in the Heisman voters eyes and thus would ultimately and unfortunately hand it over to Smith.

    While it is also true that the statistical break down that has been revealed within this article clearly gives Quinn the edge, and rightfully so, we also need to see what Smith’s numbers are in this Ohio State/Michigan game to see if this edge will remain in Quinn’s favor. Since my prediction revolves around an OSU loss to Michigan, statistical analysis such as that pertaining to this article will then determine the sway of the Heisman voters and I believe Quinn will still have the edge. Smith has not had one 300+ yard passing game all season, is projected to have 1,000 less passing yards, 7 less touchdowns, and still has not rushed for more touchdowns than Brady Quinn. The latter stat is rather surprising and I often wonder if most of the media is even aware of it, since nobody probably seen that one coming. Since Smith has not had a 300+ yard game through the air and has only thrown the ball 30 times in one game all year (thus the higher completion percentage AND QB rating than Quinn), it is unlikely that he’ll break the trend against a very respectable Michigan defense this Saturday.

    Once again, if OSU wins on Saturday, you might as well have the Heisman selection committee kick back with a few frosty brews for the rest of the year and just hand Smith the hardware cuz it won’t matter what Quinn does against USC at that point. The media has looked for ways to hold Smith above Quinn all year as it is, regardless of his performanc, so if he gets the win against Michigan, I unfortunately don’t see how Quinn could possibly win the Heisman. The only thing we can do is root on Michigan this weekend for not only Quinn’s Heisman chances, but more importantly for ND’s title aspirations this season.

  72. Well said – I’m so sick of hearing about how Mike Hart is so dominant and how he should be a Heisman frontrunner. The guy is a solid yet unspectacular back who moves the chains and doesn’t turn the ball over. Hardly Heisman criteria. In my opinion he’s a slightly faster version of Darius Walker (though his hands aren’t as good). You left Slaton off your list, by the way.

  73. Hart is boring, he’s not even one of the Top 5 running backs in the country, guys like Peterson, Stewart, Lynch, Rice, Mcfadden, Johnson, are all above Hart, giving the Heisman to a guy who does not have the ability to change a game, and to make a big play makes no sense.

    Why are you talking stats of Heisman winners and then talking of Troy Smith winning when Brady Quinn’s numbers are far above Smith’s

    Asking how good a team with 1 loss and the schedule of SoCal’s is a pointless argument, they are good, no doubt about it. Good teams win close games, just like ND has done, saying this team choked and this bad call was made doesn’t change the number in the W column. Good teams find ways to win.

    Year in and year out Brady Quinn has played the toughest schedule in the country, and has beaten a lot of good teams. Nobody has done more with less, especially with poor coaching, up until last year, and the lack of a solid D all 4 years. Besides the Heisman is about this year, this year despite one game, where he was sacked 5 times, and hit 15 times still throwing for 3 TD’s and 250 yards, while the D gave up over 30 points alone. Besides the UM game, Brady has been lights out, he is hands down the best QB and the best plyaer in the nation.

  74. To be fair, the statistical comparisons of the opponents are skewed because Quinn has played 11 – 0 Michigan. Now, once Ohio State plays Michigan, OSU and Notre Dame will have played similar schedules. If anything, OSU will then be leading, because while OSU plays Michigan, ND will be playing ARMY. Now, true, ND will surpass OSU’s schedule strength the next week when they play Southern Cal. But if OSU beats Michigan, there will really be no argument for anyone else outside of Ray Rice of Rutgers (how’s that for alliteration? Not so good? Ah well). By the same token, if ND loses to Southern Cal, Quinn really has no argument whatsoever. His numbers are decent but nowhere near what recent winners like Chris Weinke, Carson Palmer, and Matt Leinart put up … there is this unwritten rule that to win it “on numbers” you have to be averaging at least 300 yards per game, and Quinn is under 280. Further, ND would have beaten no one in particular not only this season, but last season as well. As a matter of fact, what “big win” does Quinn have at ND? I know that he is 0 – 2 in bowl games. MAYBE you can count that Michigan win in Willingham’s last year, but Quinn didn’t play well in that game. He didn’t play well in the win over 7 – 5 Michigan last year either.

    And this is something that should REALLY get you going: say ND beats Southern Cal. So what? How good is Southern Cal anyway? They would be a team that lost two games – one of them to an unranked team that got bombed by Boise State – and very easily could have lost three more. It is not so much that the games against Washington (4-7), Washington State (6-5), and Arizona State (6-4) were close, but rather that the officials OBVIOUSLY gave Southern Cal all the help that they possibly could.

    Now if Brady Quinn goes off for 5 TDs and 400 yards or something like that, then perhaps that changes things, but otherwise, the Heisman winner should come from the Ohio State/Michigan game. If Ohio State wins, the winner should be Troy Smith obviously, and if Michigan wins, the winner should be Mike Hart. That Hart and Ray Rice are not even in position to win it no matter how well their teams do is the real injustice here.

  75. Good point Cade, but actually Ted Ginn Jr. has a better QB rating (374) then either Smith or Quinn. As you say that’s the most important stat so give the Heisman to Ginn.

  76. Good stats! However, the Heisman is not a statistical race, it is a performance one. Smith has out performed Quinn consisently all season. Also, Quinn has more than one “bad game.” The Heisman seems to go to the best player on the best team. In addition to performance, this is why Smith is a shoo-in for Heisman. But if you want to go on statistics, let me give you the most important stat. QB rating, the most analytical stat in football. Smith: 168.7, Quinn: 154.4!

  77. This is an excellent summary. It should be sent to each and every Heisman voter. Seriously, I hope you or someone will do this. With the proper data, the voters will make a more intelligent vote.

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