Notre Dame v. Stanford ’15: Shamrock Stickers

Josh Adams - Notre Dame RB vs. Stanford
Photo: Gary A. Vasquez // USA TODAY Sports

Notre Dame saw its playoff hopes dashed in California as Stanford defeated the Irish 38-36.  The Irish were beaten on a field goal as time expired giving them their second loss of the season by a combined total of four points.  The difference in the game was Notre Dame’s inefficiency in the red-zone, settling for three field goals and only one touchdown in four trips inside the Cardinal 20 yard line.  The Irish defense also couldn’t come up with key stops, letting Stanford drive down the field with 30 seconds to play to win the game as well as giving up scoring drives every time the Irish took the lead.  The following players led the way for the Irish in defeat.

DeShone Kizer

Notre Dame’s redshirt freshman quarterback competed like a senior in defeat.  Kizer shredded Stanford’s defense through the air and on the ground, throwing for 234 yards and a touchdown while running for 128 yards and a touchdown.  Kizer also led a fantastic final drive for the Irish, showing elite pocket presence and ability to make plays with his feet.

Josh Adams

Freshman running back Josh Adams filled in for C.J. Prosise in a dynamic way.  Adams was a force all day running both between the tackles and outside.  The Pennsylvania native rushed for 168 yards and a touchdown averaging over nine yards per carry.  He also added two receptions for 28 yards.

Jaylon Smith

In what could be his last regular season game in a Notre Dame uniform Jaylon Smith played an incredible game as usual.  Smith was instrumental in stopping Stanford running back Christian McCaffery from rushing for over 100 yards for the first time in the last 10 games.  Smith had a team-high 15 tackles including a tackle for loss.

Justin Yoon

Irish kicker Justin Yoon was relied upon heavily as the Irish struggled to finish off drives.  Yoon was a perfect 3/3 on field goal attempts, with makes from 25, 26, and 29.  Yoon also drilled the extra point that gave the Irish the lead with 30 seconds left although they ultimately couldn’t hold on.

You may also like


  1. Sorry to interrupt the insults and ad hominem attacks.

    But can we all deep six the scenario that losing vs. Stanford eliminated NDs shot at the playoff.
    It’s unlikely that even if ND beat Stanford by two scores, a top ten team and at their place, they’d have been out.

    With four teams in, there will be at least one or two teams who will annually have a legitimate claim to the playoffs when being left out, and that doesn’t bode well for ND, considering eliminating a major conference champ by an at-large pick (i.e. ND/ or worthy conference runner-ups such as this year in the Big 10) will only happen if that team proves they are markedly better- translated: You barely beat a team like BC, you’re out. So the “beauty pageant” – how you win and by how much- is put upon teams like ND and worthy conference runner-ups, not conference champs, even if – say- Alabama barely defeats a team like Florida in their conference championship game.

    After BC, the committee members placed OK securely ahead of us, so their victory in the final week would likely lock them in. The committee needed a Big 12 rep after last year, and OK’s jump to three was its attempt at sealing the deal. Placing Baylor at #7 left the door open for them as well.
    Four big ten teams were in the top 10 before Michigan did get “blown out” by OSU, assuring one of three a slot. Had ND blown out Stanford, a top ten team and at their place ,but still without an OK loss, ND likely could have risen no higher than fifth. The four team scenario with all the conference champs makes even a one-loss ND team, like this year even had they won vs. Stanford, still left on the outside.

    Reassess your goals as to what an ND fan can expect- because anything less than 11 regular season wins, and some years, one-loss will be too many, will translate at best into a new year’s day bowl at best until the committee expands the qualifiers to eight, or at least six.

  2. Thanks George.

    Yes, you are correct. I was referring to special in that ND still puts academics and discipline first.

    Personally I feel Swarbick and co. have done a good job moving ND into the 21st century (and recruits DO look at that) while respecting the traditions (i.e. while we have artificial turf now, the slashes were retained in the end zone–I believe we are one of the only teams in CFB not to have our name in the end zones).

    You can’t live 30 years in the past anymore and win NC’s. I’m afraid you can’t have it both ways. I’m sure there are those who will vehemently disagree, but I respectfully disagree.

  3. David,

    I hear tell that subway is planning some kind of get together and needs a third.

    You seem like the perfect fit for them.

    Just make sure you bring your party favors so you guys will have all your bases covered.


  4. David – I already informed you that criticizing the gear is lame, yet you double down on it. Regardless of my personal opinion on the MANY different alternate uniforms, you should stick to matters of substance. That was my point. And I highly doubt Damian was implying that ND is special due to the green on green alternate uniforms… oh sorry…. jersey, pants, helmet, shoes combination. You just used his statement as an excuse to let us know your opinion that nobody asked for. Then you rip on field turf, HAHA. Stop embarrassing yourself.

  5. George: There is no uniform. A uniform is fixed, standard, permanent outfit that everyone wears all the time.
    Read the word slowly…there’s a big hint to its meaning right inside itself!

    ND now changes its outfits like a teenage girl. Like all the rest of ’em. To sell crap.

    You liked the green-with-green, did you ? Yeah, it made the field really ‘pop’.

    How about the “golden dome” helmets being modified with leprechaun stickers? That a big improvement for ya?

  6. Oh, and by the way, Burgy, I believe I apologized to jeff about my rant and we actually ended up agreeing later on. So much for your lame attempt to recruit an ally by bring up a post of mine to jeff from over 2 years ago! 2 years ago!!! Burgy, you have way too much time on your hands, bro. Is Mike Dumblin ignoring you, not coming over enough to your place of late for some intimate moments? At least you have your laptop for trolling and going to you NAMBLA website to chat with you alter ego “SteelFanRon”!

  7. Brian Kelly WAS a cheaper, lesser-known coach. His salary still isn’t even in the top 50 of all D1 college football coaches. That being said, I pretty much agree that 10 wins is a high water mark for him. Sure, there will be especially good seasons where ND might make the playoffs or at least be in the running, but there will also be 7-8 win seasons along the way. At ND there is simply less of an emphasis on winning as compared with other schools. Sure, when it comes down to it the administration would prefer winning over losing, but are they really going to NOT suspend five players who may or may not have used the appropriate footnotes on a term paper? No, of course not.

  8. david,

    I have to admit you’re way more critical than even me. I can see where you’re going but I can’t really follow you all the way there. It’s just a bridge too far for me, sir.

    I will agree with you about Burgy being a closet serial killer, stalker, sociopath, psychopath, pederast, etc., of some kind. Who else archives and indexes our chats and also provides personal information (with the complicity of this site’s administrators!) like he did to me a while back?!

    I do know this about Burgy he must be having an affair with a black man. Perhaps with Mike “Dumblin” Tomlin himself from what I can gather. How’s that for class?!

  9. “ND is special for a reason.”

    Field turf.
    Uniforms being replaced by costumes, complete with vandalism to the helmets.
    A reality TV show.
    Jumbotron on its way, complete with ads and other whoring content.

    In my books, any legitimate claims to ND being “special” is getting close to being beaten out of the place in the name of money.

    But they’ll always show the old photos and Rockne speech clips on TV. So there’s that.

  10. David,

    My point being it wasn’t ND’s fault Meyer went elsewhere. They did everything they could to lure him. Meyer wanted to go somewhere where he wouldn’t have to deal with the academic and discipline requirements of ND–that is one area ND won’t compromise on, nor should they. ND is special for a reason.

  11. Meyer got his start and his first job in college coaching from The University of Notre Dame.

    There was little doubt that he wouldn’t do Okay.

  12. Sorry David, basically you’re suggesting ND adopt a MAC or AAC model of hiring coaches. Basically ND would become a stepping stone instead of a destination. I don’t think ND sees itself that way and certainly the fans don’t.

    And frankly they tried it during the D/W/W years. They hired unknown quantities there and it fared pretty badly for ND, in fact almost making ND irrelevant.

    If anyone whiffed on Meyer, it was Meyer himself. ND did roll out the red carpet for him and he spurned them for Florida, where he wouldn’t have to deal with all the challenges coaches have at ND. We ended up with Weis as a result, and we know how that turned out.

  13. With the level of talent it would get just for the ND experience and degree, I’d suggest that ND would be a 6-6 team under most sensible coaches with a pulse. ie. bowl game eligible.

    NOTE: I’m not suggesting that to be an acceptable or satisfactory goal for ND or its fans. Read the rest of the post.

    So for paying Brian Kelly et al the incremental millions of dollars over what it would pay a (very grateful) unknown entity, ND has upgraded its results by 3 to 4 wins a year.

    So am I saying that 10-2 is a Kelly “expected high water mark”? Yes. I am. 2012 was a complete and utter fluke for Kellly (a dream season form Manti T’eo gets more credit than Kelly). Kelly is simply not Saban smart or capable.

    At least one, often two times a season, Kelly’s teams still come out unprepared and stink up the joint. And Kelly calls a game that makes the offense underachieve. Leading to one or two surprising to shocking losses, or very unsatisfying / fan frustrating wins.
    Such a game against BC cost ND its #4 ranking and any legitimate shot at the playoffs whether it beat Stnaford or not. (sorry dreamers). That’s ‘serious money’ expensive.

    And so ND still, predictably, winds up in a bowl game outside the playoffs.
    Answer honestly: Does it really matter much whether its the Peach Bowl or the Alamo Bowl ?

    A cheaper, lesser-known coach comes with some other, cost-effective upsides:
    a) You can rest assured they are both highly motivated to succeed, and NOT immediately looking to parlay it into another job.
    b) If necessary, getting rid of them doesn’t break the bank. (see: the W bros.)
    c) And there’s a very real chance of finding the next great coach BEFORE he has many other, lucrative opportunities (the Urban Meyer whiff).

  14. SteelFanRob
    November 3, 2013 at 2:09 am
    Hi, I’m loser jeff who makes stupid predictions and cries like a baby when someone calls me out. I’m sorry I make stupid predictions beacuse I’m an inbred loser who doesn’t know much about the fussbol. I don’t have a lot of friends and I’m only a tough talker on the internet because in real life I’m a teeny, itty, bitty weenie. Please don’t say anything bad and make me cry.

    Wa, Wa, Wa….

    Go cry me a river, jeff, you suckass, big baby.

    You started this but believe me I’ll finish it. I’ve been on here for a lot longer than the 30 seconds you’ve been here you cry baby!

  15. David, Thanks for calling it like you see it. I tend to agree with most of what you say. Including your comments to Ronnie Doodie

  16. SF Rob: Kelly is simply not a competent big-time gameday coach.
    Good recruiter, good with the media, good program administrator. But his behavior and decisions on gamedays are simply abysmal.

    But I think ND admin is pretty satisfied with his skillset, with one caveat (more on that below).

    The truth is that the stadium will be full, and the TV contract runs through 2025. Coach doesn’t matter on those counts.

    But unlike Weis, Kelly is much more aware of the ‘politician’ aspect of being ND coach…which matters as much or more than winning. For proof see Lou Holtz. He deserved a much better fate…but he didn’t get one because he didn’t play that other game well enough.

    Kelly survived both the Sullivan fatality and the Seeberg allegations unscathed (I know no details about these incidents…..this statement is simply factual).
    He interviewed for another job after just his third season. After the Alabama no-show, to boot.
    And it got revealed by some talking head this season that ND administration had Kelly go to anger management therapy in the offseason.

    At any other school, none of these is a big deal. But this is Notre Dame….George O’Leary lost his job offer over fibbing on his resume.

    IMO, Kelly is a champion career manager more than a coach, and he’s accomplishing with his resume what poor George tried to pull off with his.
    As a fan who isn’t blind, that’s not very comforting or endearing. And it makes giving him any benefit of the doubt when he makes idiotic decisions impossible.

  17. David,

    Enraged, no, not even close. Don’t flatter yourself. I love a good argument as much as the next guy. But you’re just convinced of your own rightness and you made it abundantly clear you think anyone who disagrees with you is a moron.

    If you think 10-2, and hanging to the last minute with 2 top 10 teams (one the number 1 team in the country) is a failure, so be it. Maybe you’d be happier following another CFB team.

    Not sure how I’m channeling Burgundy, but whatever.

  18. Sorry Damian. I have clearly enraged to the point where you’re now devolving into a Burgundy wannabe. And that is truly sad.

  19. Usually I do agree going for 2 would be a late game decision. I think the problem was not that BK had no faith in his kicker to do a PAT as someone here suggested–but he had no faith that the offense would score another TD. And frankly I wouldn’t blame him considering our red zone woes. He probably figured better go for it now while we have a chance so if Stanford did score another TD, all we’d need would be a FG to tie.

  20. It reminds me of the last BB game against Kentucky. It’s almost worse to lose by 2 points than say by 10. In both cases, you’re one offensive or defensive play away from the win. One stop, one down, one basket, it all makes the difference between a W and a L. That’s what makes this so disappointing, we were so close.

    Though in the end, it was all academic. After OK obliterated OK State, we were pretty much out of the playoff. The last rankings made that pretty clear.

  21. SFR, I do agree, ND lost more points because of Red Zone miscues than anything else. I’m impressed they scored as much as they did.

    What ultimately killed the Irish more than anything else was the last series by Stanford. First a foolish penalty, then allowing Stanford to get in FG range. The defense needed to make that stop, more than any other, and they failed.

  22. Damian,

    Pretty simple rule of thumb. You only go for 2 late in the game, if needed. That’s why it’s called chasing points in the football argot if you go for 2 too early, because there’s simply too much game left and it’s impossible to predict what will happen with too much time left. Case in point the Clemson game: had BK gone for one an extra point (EXP) at the end of the game would’ve tied it up and extended the game into OT. It’s always about extending the game. That’s why TCU should’ve tied the game against OU with an EXP and given itself more than just one play. Extend the game! Take points always. Let the game play itself out and don’t chase after points!

    I’d be complaining if after the last ND TD BK had not gone for 2 with his team was up by 1 (which it would’ve been had it kicked the earlier EXP). At that point, with 30 seconds left, there is absolutely no reason not to go for 2 to make it a 3 point lead. At that point there is no difference between a 1 or 2 point lead. Again, go for 2 only as late as possible and if mathematically advantageous. Don’t chase points early. More often than not it comes back to haunt you.

    Regardless, in the end what killed the Irish was its poor Red Zone O and D. Plain and simple.

  23. Also, I really do find it amusing we are arguing about going for 2—when we lost by 2. If we had gone with the PAT, we would have lost by 1. I don’t know about you but that really wouldn’t make me feel any better. In fact, I’d be complaining that BK didn’t go for 2.

    I admit, I’m just as guilty of prolonging that argument as anyone else. For me, I did the math pretty quick in my head (at that time in the game–NOT knowing the final result which ultimately convinced me personally it was the right call). Others disagree, that’s fine I guess. Ultimately, it’s all irrelevant because we would have lost either way.

  24. You know what David, whatever. You show up here whenever ND loses a game to rag on BK. Go follow GT if your so high on Paul Johnson. Are they even going to a bowl game this year?

    The fact is ND has taken steps in the right direction since BK and Swarbick took over. Are they elite yet, no. Does BK need to make adjustments, absolutely. But your constant rants about BK are just old. Tell me buddy, you want ND to fire BK, then name me a coach you’d replace him with–a coach who would do better now and actually come to ND (forget guys like Saban or Stoops—they aren’t coming to ND).

    I can respect guys like Steel Fan Rob because while he has criticisms of BK, he’s willing to look at things ND has done right under BK.

    I think most of us fans want BK to succeed, because the alternative most likely means the end of ND as an elite program. We can’t afford BK to lose. We need this coach to bring ND back, because I’ll tell you right now, we will not get another chance.

    So yes, there is room for improvement.

    But how bout acknowledging what BK has done right:

    1. Recruiting the right players on both sides of the ball–Weis did bring recruiting back up to par, but BK took it a step further.
    2. Winning the games we’re supposed to win. A huge problem during the D/W/W years was we lost a lot of games we should have won.
    3. Winning games against top 25 opponents. We were woefully lacking in that area for years before BK.
    4. We actually do have a defense now. Yes, there is a lot that needs to be done here, but I think many people forget our defenses during the Weis regime–actually there’s a good reason for that because there actually wasn’t any. When we scored 40+ points and still lost games regularly, that tells you everything.
    5. Last, but not least, the next man up mentality. We lost a lot of key players to injuries and in most cases the next man up filled the void. Guys like Adams and Kizer, who rose to the occasion and saved what could have been a disastrous season. We are all disappointed, but honestly, when Kizer had to start after Zaire went down, did anyone really thing 10-2 would happen? I thought 10-2 was necessary for a successful season with Zaire, Bryant and Folston playing the season. We’re 10-2 without those guys.

    There’s a reason most of CFB land outside ND fans thinks this was a hugely successful year for the Irish.

  25. Bottom line is “david” is absolutely right about not chasing points. The only other head football coach that chases points as often as BK is Mike Dumblin of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Not exactly elite company to be with. The poster child against affirmative action, Mike Dumblin can’t seem to figure out either time management or 2-point conversions after all these years. Lucky for him, the bumblin’ Mike Dumblin has an elite QB who bails him out about half the time, which is pretty good. Let’s hope that BK doesn’t regress the Irish the way Dumblin has taken the Stillers firmly into perpetual mediocrity. (If the Steelers fail to make the POs or win a PO game this season, it will mark the longest post-season drought since before Chuck Noll became the coach in the Burgh in 1969!)

    I think all of us would’ve taken 10-2 at the beginning of the season. However, even after factoring in all the injuries, the way the season ACTUALLY played itself out leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. ND literally gave away 2 games and made too many others closer than necessary. Truth is that injuries alone don’t account for the continued Red Zone woes (on both sides of the ball!) and the choking away of winnable games. TOs and dropped balls in key spots, for example, are not the result of injuries, especially since these happened too often to too many front-line players in the 2-deep rotation. These have been recurrent trends under BK and not a phenomenon of one injury-plagued year, sorry to say.

    The O gets a lot of flack for its poor Red Zone play. But the D is just as bad at keeping teams out of its endzone as the O is at scoring TDs. If the ND D forces just one Cardinal FG instead of surrendering a TD, then the Irish win the game. Add the O scoring just one TD instead of a FG against Stanford and the Irish win going away. Again, this lack of killer instinct has characterized BK’s entire tenure at ND, not just one game or one season. As such, at this point injuries just come across as another justification in an endless litany of excuses for going on three decades of ND football futility.

    I’m not sure BK will ever be a prime-time FBS coach. He hasn’t proven he can win key games consistently at this level yet. Here’s hoping he learns a little humility and matures into the next legendary ND football coach.

    Go Irish!

  26. david
    May 29, 2015 at 12:37 pm
    After Weis, I wished for Paul Johnson. Fans here disagreed. Lustily.

    At his introductory presser, Kelly pronounced the university name two different ways, and it’s been doublespeak ever since.

    I’m looking forward to Sept 19.

  27. Uh, if ND did this and then Stanford did that, and then ND responded with…..blah blah blah ad infinitum.

    That’s EXACTLY why anyone with a grain of common sense doesn’t chase points with so much game left to play — because there’s too much game left to play out, no way of predicting intelligently what’s going to take place, and no way of guessing (let alone knowing) how valuable any and every single point is going to end up being.

    Which is why you don’t throw one point away — to gamble on the much longer odds of getting two — to instead end up with zero — when it is completely, utterly unknown whether the ‘gimme’ one is the critical score ?! Bitch, pleeze.

    Do you get it? Will bells ever ring for you, or are you genetically predisposed to stupid?

  28. I’m still trying to figure out why we go to the prevent D and rush three when they only need a FG. Skill players in Power 5 conferences are just to good to give that much time to. Now throw in the fact that it Hogan back there and it really sounds crazy. Cajuste only had 20 catches on the year but had 5 for 125 against us. That same prevent D let GT close the final margin and BC sneak back into the game.

    Also, I think they have had three different coaches calling plays over the last three years and continue to have issues in the red zone. The only common thread over those three years is Kelly. Its like he thinks its time for micro management when they get to the 20. His tendencies are obvious and not only make it more difficult to get into the end zone but are also major contributors to how many red zone turnovers we have. Time to let Sanford run the show.

  29. And he earned some good will from me for the shut out of the Meatchickens (7). I never tire of 31-0. That was an awesome game. The Meatchickens (8) couldn’t even pull off a FG :). (Though that good will only goes so far).

  30. I’m not sold on BVG myself. I’m not on the “he needs to be fired” train yet though because they have shown flashes of excellent play. They are just mixed in with bad plays and missed assignments. One area of great improvement was defending the triple option. I no longer have heartburn every time we play Navy or GT.

    The defense is a vast improvement over the Weis years. Our defense was nonexistent under Weis. At least now they are middle of the road if nothing else. But there’s no reason our defense shouldn’t start playing better. They are getting good defense recruits. BVG is just going to have to work harder to get them playing smart. But it shouldn’t be complicated. Just stick to your assignments and avoid stupid penalties.

  31. You nailed it Damian. The bottom line is, ND over-achieved this year. Not because they don’t have talent – but because it was decimated early in the season.

    Realistically, say ND did beat Stanford. Who truly believes a 1 point win would have vaulted them over the MSU-Iowa winner? We’d be playing the TCU ’14 song. Lackluster performances against Wake Forest and BC doomed the Stanford game possibilities. I’m not trying to defend the defensive blunders against Stanford. Just stating ND is in the same position now it more than likely would have been if they won.

    This team, on the offensive side of the ball, is loaded for next year. Kizer, Zaire, Fuller (if it holds true and he stays), deep offensive line, Adams, Folston, Procise (if he chooses to stay). I’m not holding out hope that a Smith/Day-less defense will be better next year. Probably worse. What we are probably in store for next year is a Big 12 style of season – offensive shootouts in the 40-50 range.

    The part I will be critical of is the defense. It may have been ranked 40 in the nation, but it wasn’t dominant much of the year. They did a good job against GT and Navy option play, but the mental mistakes, lack of front 4 pressure and coverage breakdowns is the difference between 10-2 and 12-0.

    If BVG/BK can’t fix that, well – teams like Alabama, Oklahoma, TCU, Baylor, Iowa, MSU, Ohio State, etc., etc., will feast on them in a playoff atmosphere.

    I’m a die hard ND fan. But this team stood no chance in a playoff against Clemson, Alabama, Oklahoma or MSU/Iowa.

  32. ND will still get a big bowl, a NY Day 6 bowl, equivalent to the old BCS bowls. That’s nothing to stick your nose at. If ND can win that game, that would be huge.

    Frankly, with all the injuries they’ve had, I’m frankly shocked they are only 4 points away from an undefeated season. I mean, come on people, get a grip. They lost 2 points to the number 1 team in the country, and 2 points to another top 10 team. They gave Stanford everything they could handle. Stanford was lucky to get away with a win.

    Have we forgotten already the D/W/W years, when we couldn’t beat top 25 teams at all, and even lost to teams outside the top 25. We are closing the gap. We still beat a very good Navy and Temple team (I never thought I’d be able to say that for those 2), a good Pitt team, a pretty good USC team and hung tough until the last minute with 2 top 10 teams, all without our prior starting QB and our 3 starting RBs at the beginning of the season. ND fans may not be impressed, but the media certainly is. We’re still in the AP top 10. Mark May, of all people, sings ND praises now (though that still just does not seem right).

  33. There could be another reason for going for 2.

    Like… It’s the last game of the season, for a special group that has stuck together, worked together,
    endured pain and injury together, endured adversity together, and perhaps the head coach feels that they have EARNED the right to have every opportunity to win, and the right to determine their own outcome and their own football future?

    And if by chance you’re a high school recruit trying to decide where and what coach to play for… a place like ND and a Coach like Kelly, who is willing to put the game in the hands of the players, and let them decide their own fate on the field might be a pretty appealing option.

    I believe they call that a “Player’s Coach”

  34. Well, how the play unfolded is certainly arguable. Not sure why Kizer seemed the throw it away. He at least should have tried to run it in if there were no receivers open. I mean you have nothing to lose. Even if he gets sacked, so what. Field position is irrelevant on a 2 pt conversion.

    But at the same time, I understand QB’s are conditioned to throw it away instead of taking a sack if possible to avoid losing yards–so I can hardly fault him for it.

    They do need to work on that more in training camp. If you’re going to go for 2, you need to make those tries more times than not. The whole point is your doing that to try to win the game so it needs to succeed.

    I think ND fans have become so used to playing it safe under these circumstances, we forget all the times guys like Holtz, Pareseghian, Rockne and others went for 2. They wouldn’t think twice about it. I think BK and staff need to work on making sure they are more successful at the 2 pt conversion, not doing it less. That’s an argument I could agree with.

  35. Bottom line it was to early in the game to go for two point play. I like Kelly and he has done good job but he needs to throw away that two point chart. Let’s go win another bowl game, rooting for the Irish for fifty years has been a pleasure even though some years have been rough. GO IRISH!!!!

  36. Robert,

    I understand what you’re getting at, but unfortunately BK couldn’t sit on his laurels and hope they made another TD. What he was trying to do is get the score to the point that all they would need is a FG to tie it. If they were then held to a FG, they’d be short a point to tie and many would be complaining here that he should have went for 2 earlier when he had the chance.

    My overriding point is a PAT or failed 2 pt conversion would yield the same result. And ultimately it did. I simply saw no advantage to a PAT by that point.

  37. I meant 2 more scores (not TD’s). For example, say they went for the PAT and the score was 38-37 instead. ND would have had to score another TD, and then Stanford score a FG, then the score would be 44-41, and if Stanford was then held to another FG it would be 44-44 (assuming ND didn’t score anything when getting the ball back). That would be the only scenario that the PAT would have made a difference. And frankly, there was not enough time for all that scoring by that point. Any other scenario favors the 2 pt conversion.

    It’s called playing the Odds. In my book, they heavily favored going for 2. Frankly, the scenario I outlined above is the only possible scenario where going for the PAT made sense, at least without adding several more scores to the mix.

  38. He went for two when the score was 29-28 trying to make the score 31 28, if he kicks the PAT the score is then 30 28, Stanford then scored to give them a 35 29 lead instead of 35 30, then when the Irish scored with 30 sceonds would have been the right time to try for two for a 38 35 lead, but by going for the two pt play earlier and us missing it left them chasing missed points. So it did matter in the long run.

  39. David,

    If ND converts the 2 pt conversion the score ends up tied. It’s not just the end score, but at the time he went for 2 the dynamics all made sense. I didn’t go into great detail here but it was more than just the final score. There really was no benefit to going for just the PAT. My point is a PAT would have made no difference at that point in the game—or at the end of the game. A 2-pt conversion basically had benefits of allowing Stanford a TD with ND only then needing a FG to tie. If you did the math at that point of the game it made perfect sense. A missed 2 pt conversion OR a PAT meant ND would have had to score a TD—get it. That is why I argue the 2 pt conversion made all the sense in the world. BK was trying to put ND in a position that if Stanford scored a TD, ND would have then only needed a FG–meaning he was putting faith in his kicker to kick a FG.

    Missing the 2 pt conversion OR going for the PAT yielded exactly the same result for the Irish. My whole point being the 2 pt try basically was a no risk, all reward try. You’d have to add a bunch of scores for the PAT to actually make a favorable difference for the Irish (probably at least 2 more TD’s for both teams). BK made the right call under those circumstances.

    I know you like to dump on BK, and I do agree there’s some room for progress. But going 10-2, including taking 2, count them 2, top 10 teams to the wire, in a year with numerous injuries, season ending injuries to key starters, is quite an accomplishment. You’d really have to be a moron to call for BK’s head under those circumstances. If ND were to fire BK (which isn’t going to happen), other coaches would never want to come to ND. Go 10-2 with all the injuries and you fire your coach, no way would another coach want to deal with that.

  40. It was a good year. I agree with all of the players mentioned for Shamrock Stickers as well as Sheldon Day and Elijah Shumate, mentioned in an earlier post.

    It could have been a great year, even with the injuries, if not for the defense. I lay that on BVG. They gave up too many big plays, couldn’t get the offense to turn the ball over near enough, couldn’t make a stand when a stand was needed often enough, stuck with Joe Schmidt far too long and had his players out of position way too often. BVG, who looks like a porn-star reject from the 80’s, needs to be shown the door. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening.

    Here’s hoping for a bowl win.

  41. Evan: This entire discussion makes me think of my high school teachers, and how amazingly patient and self-controlled they were for never just grabbing the really, really stupid kids in the back of the class and shaking them.

    It’s nothing short of surreal to see how mental giants like Damian jump to the final score as an actual argument in defense of Kelly. As we both know (and it seems oddly unique to us), games play out based on the decisions made during the game. That’s where the final score comes from…not the other way round.

  42. Damian,

    If we are up by 1 point and kick a field goal instead of going for two there, we go up 2 points. What would happen my friend if we held Stanford and then got another TD and point after?? I think that is called a two-possession game right? By going for 2 there and not converting, my scenario means it would only be a one-possession game still with an 8 point lead instead of a 9 point lead. That was a really stupid call at that point in the game just like everyone else is saying here.

    MTA, I think our Seniors did well too. However, Shumate was part of the group of DBs getting burned time and time again this season in crucial situations. Two things from last game is one, the long TD pass they scored, it was like he wasn’t even trying to cover the receiver going right by him. And two, and I’ve never seen this in my life, is where he came in on a safety blitz, had Hogan in his grasp with nobody around him and literally pushes Hogan away to give him more time to throw the ball away instead of making the EASY sack. That was a huge play at the time and was so bad that my dad and I even discussed that maybe Shumate was being paid off or something after those two plays.

    Not having Russell this game definitely hurt. He may not have the best coverage skills but the guy can tackle really well. Seeing Butler go high on that guy only to bounce off and the dude walk in for a score would not have happened with Russell out there.

    I think we have had a great season but it could have and should have been better. Clemson was our players fault (other than the 2 pt conversion calls) but Stanford was definitely the coaches faults. I am really starting to get the feeling our coaches buckle in high pressure situations at the end of games. Why did Kelly call a timeout after we got the first down near the goalline with 30 seconds left or whatever? Why didn’t Vangorder drop our LBs back far enough to make sure that a 20+ yard pass did NOT happen at the end as that would be the only thing that would beat us? Play the clock to your advantage in any way you can and we did NOT see that out of our coaches last game causing this great group of talented Irish players the game.

    I know that everyone is saying this was a great season considering the injuries but I’m going to disagree simply because injuries sometimes can bring out players who we would have never known how good they really are. We absolutely have championship talent on the field, even with our backups, but could not get over the hump. It is definitely heartbreaking.

  43. I give all the credit in the world to ND this year, With all the injuries they stayed together and had
    a great year. VanGorder putting in that terrible prevent defense at the end cost them the game.
    He is killing this team and has to go.

  44. That there is even debate about the terrible decisions to keep going for 2 in gthe 3rd quarter of tight games amazes me. Honestly.

    All opposing coaches interpret ill-advised, grab-bagging offense as a sign of weakness. And they spin it hard, using it to further motivate their players. Stanford didn’t need more, but there it was.

    Why would any coach interpret it as panic? Because they know that chasing 2 pts. that early in a close game speaks volumes, you just need to interpret the message being sent.

    The most sensible reason for Kelly to have chased 2 pts. then is he had no faith in his kicker, due to health or technique. Yoon was fine, and he kicks PATs very well.

    So Shaw then knew that Kelly was a) being arrogant, b) panicking, or c) both.

    It was a tight game. There was a lot on the line. And Stanford is as good as ND in all facets. So pure arrogance would seem unlikely, almost crazy.

    Arrogance was Weis always going for it on 4th down. From anywhere.

    Slightly less arrogant has been Kelly winning the toss and taking the ball to start games. Navy? I get that one. Worsening weather forecast? Maybe a good idea with his pass-happy O. Otherwise, its his BS hubris.

    Inside the 25 yard line, NDs offense is a sputtering, predictable, ineffective embarrassment. Everyone on the Stanford team knew that. Yet here was ND, setting up in that very location for a completely unnecessary two-point gamble. I’m sure Stanford players were petrified and not salivating at all.

    Two point plays have less than 50% odds. That’s a big reason why teams don’t just run them all the time…it costs one point more often than it provides two. D’uh.

    Kelly is a gameday dispshit. Exhibit A is his unrelenting, costly 2-pt. idiocy.

  45. What about the defense? They need help. The genius in charge has been a failure at stopping even bad teams from getting into endzone. Another thing who made the decision to start the kid replacing K. Russell? I’m sure but I’m almost 65 and could have beaten him. Freshman, sophomore whatever, he was killing us all night. Missed tackles, you name it. He needs some real seasoning. I know 10 wins is a lot for any team but our “D” looked pathetic at times, confused and lacking in tackling! Wait till next year???!!!!!
    I hope so because this year could have been so much better! GO IRISH!

  46. ND fan Canada: Find one original thought in any of Burgundy’s posts.
    I’ll save you some time: there are none. His entire shtick is drive-by slurs.

    Heck, he obviously keeps permanent files on other people’s posts…that’s the shtick of pathetic loser stalkers. Because that’s his internet masturbation sport.

    There are lots of porn sites that would welcome his live chats for $9.95 a minute. And they have exactly the same knowledge of football as he does.

  47. At the time I was thinking he better go for 2. The point spread even at that time told me there was no advantage going for 1.

    Basically, when I was looking at the score and just doing some quick math, there was no advantage settling for 1. If we made the 2, then the spread would have been 3. If we miss it, like we did, it would have made no difference to the end result. And that was born out because we lost by 2 points.

  48. Damian – it is the timing of the two point conversion. You take the point in the third and see how the game plays out. If the score were the same at the end with 30 sec left, then you go for two at the end of the game to go up by 3. Bottom line is you don’t chase points before the 4th especially when you are leading.

  49. I’m not sure about the angst over the 2 pt attempt. Can people not do math. At the end of the game we lost by 2 points people. If he just went for the point after kick, we would have lost by 1 point instead of 2. In my book, that’s still a loss. And if we had made the 2 pt conversion the score would have been tied and we go to OT.

    Now if you want to complain about not converting the 2 pts, that’s one thing. But complaining that BK went for 2 makes absolutely no sense if you can do math. In fact, I would expect people to complain had he NOT gone for 2. When we made that TD I was saying to myself he better go for 2.

  50. MTA,
    Well said…considering everything that happened this year, especially injuries, Team 127 did a hell of a job.

  51. Thanks MTA, that was class.
    Burgundy, you are a bright guy but you sure like to belittle people. You might get more traction at this site if you were a little more forbearing. We are all idiots at times, we don’t always need it pointed out, and especially with such malignant glee. Show a little grace.

    Great season all around, ND. With those injuries, it sure was impressive that we were in the playoff conversation until the last play of the last game. Go Irish!

  52. The point is david, Ron is calling you out as an obvious ND-hater who poses as a ND fan. How sad your life must be that you derive joy from the failings of 18-22 year olds, and those that lead them. Tough loss, things don’t go your way sometimes. Cowards point their fingers at everyone else; sometimes you just get beat. Would love to see a Notre Dame – Ohio State Fiesta Bowl.

  53. Surely we all also noticed Sheldon Day last night as well.In addition to the above mentioned by Peter, ND will miss Elijah Shumate as well- the most unnoticed taken-for-granted ND player in many a year. BK has noticed, and stated so recently. The fans- not so much.
    Like OL, we notice DBs more when they mess up than when they perform well.
    K. Russell- another case-in-point.

    Congrats and thanks to all exiting Seniors for being part of this ND resurgence, despite holding together despite the last two years of unimaginable, countless injuries- with a monsoon loss thrown into the mix that proved little more than Clemson was a better mudder that night.
    I, for one, will not dwell on the two two point losses but fondly recall instead the record # of home wins and key contributions these Seniors made in returning ND to among the elite. Credit where credit is due.Thanks for making Saturdays a lot more enjoyable than they’ve too often been since Lou left.
    The pressure and demands of being a head coach at ND are evident to anyone paying attention. A year or two from now, BK will be gone- his decision . . . but the thrills and heroics of Jaylon Smith and Fuller, (not gone yet!) and Sheldon Day, and the new sack-master Okwara, the key unselfish utility role-playing of Farley, the reliability of Shumate and with the leadership exemplified by Chris Brown, Joe Schmidt and N.Martin and R. Stanley will be remembered as the group that took ND to the level of being able to compete with any and all. And remembering them as a “group” better serves what they have been and who they are.

  54. A game ND should have won.
    Coach K, think about letting Sanford be the real OC. Let him scheme & call plays. There is too much talent offensively for this team’s INEFFICIENT red zone outcomes that I blame your play calling versus personnel.
    Unless he leaves on his own accord, if defensive metrics do not improve significantly in 2016, it’s time to make a change at DC. 3 years is usually a good measuring stick for a fair appraisal of a coach, albeit an assistant.
    Whatever bowl ND accepts, go in with a “killer chip on the shoulder ” attitude with a “take no prisoner” approach. It would be easy to dwell on this loss and have hangover loss going into the bowl game- NO CAN DO. It should be KICK ASS and bring on the opponent.
    Kizer should be your number 1 going into spring practice unless unforeseen injury occurs. I like Malik but his unfortunate injury has opened the door that Kizer has taken full advantage of, unless Zaire shows in practice he is in better command of the offense, have a clear idea who is number 1, this team is going to need that.
    Smash and punch in the bowl game!
    THIS IS NOTRE DAME, be proud of her.

  55. Romeo, Jaylon, Sheldon, Joe (and quite possibly Kevare) all gone next year. We, BK and BVG, couldn’t build a credible defense around them??? Who thinks it will improve next year…..not many realistic observers do.

  56. david
    September 17, 2015 at 11:34 am
    You are in for one brutal dose of realty this Saturday. Johnson wants to rub VanGorder’s nose in it bad enough to shorten his career. GT will whip ND like a rented mule.
    A Plan B for yourself for the 2nd half will prove prescient.

  57. david
    August 24, 2015 at 11:12 am
    Much of the football world scoffed when Georgia Tech hired Paul Johnson, Navy’s former head coach who brought his triple-option offense with him to Atlanta, but who’s laughing now?
    I threw out Johnson ‘s name as my hope for the ND job after the ‘Air Weis’ debacle…and was laughed at right here on this board. No way did the smart fans here want an option-happy, “small-timey” coach like Paul Johnson.

    So here we are….with the Brian Kelly vaudeville act looking pretty old, Malik Zaire (a Tony Rice option doppleganger) at QB, and ND destined to be embarrassed by Johnson’s GT.

  58. How bout a sticker for Brian Kelly, offensive genius?

    Thank God for the 50+ yard passing plays, because Kelly apparently thinks Red Zone means ‘stop’.

    And chasing 2 pts. —- again —- with over 20 minutes (one third) of a tight game left to play. Exactly like he did at Clemson, from which he learned precisely NOTHING.

    That infamous “idiot conversion chart” that Dick Vermiel invented decades ago had a specific purpose: to help out a coach who doubted his judgement or math skills in the stressful moments of a wild finish. Not for egotistical idiots to use as a crutch to replace football IQ.

    FYI: USC at Colorado, Nov. 13. USC went for 2 with 5:35 left in Q3. Color man (and somewhat credible football guy) Mack Brown immediately disagreed. He commented that Texas had a strict rule (not him — Texas football) : never even think of going for 2 before the 4th Qtr. EVER.

    After his well-advertised “25 years doing this”, Kelly simply refuses to learn anything. He simply isn’t a good or smart enough gameday coach — and most certainly not a competent offensive play caller — to have such misplaced confidence in himself.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he fires Van Gorder. Because that might shut everyone up for awhile. Again.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Back to top button