Initial Impressions – Notre Dame 23, Pitt 17

Notre Dame jumped out to an early lead for the second week in a row, but this time the Irish needed a late defensive stand to hold on for a 23-17 win over Pitt. Here are this week’s initial impressions.


  • Dayne Crist is still a work in progress. He’s showing signs of really picking up the offense at times, but other times it looks like he is still thinking too much. He needs to trust his receivers are going to come down with the ball more too.
  • Armando Allen ran really well again this week. He needs to get more carries week in and week out.
  • One player who is clearly progressing each week is Theo Riddick. By the end of the year Riddick is going to be a very dangerous weapon in this offense. He’s going to break one of those bubble screens for a huge gain pretty soon.
  • After a few hiccups early with the shuffled offensive line, the line played fairly well throughout the game. Crist had plenty of time to pass and there were some lanes open for the backs.  It was nice to see Matt Romine step in and hold his own at left tackle against a solid defensive line.
  • Kyle Rudolph doesn’t look like himself and might need to shut it down for a week or two to get healthy. The overthrow by Crist was more of a result of Rudolph not being 100% than it was a bad throw from Crist.
  • I didn’t mind the play calling on Notre Dame’s last drive before the kneel down at the end. The play call to Ragone was wide open and would have been a very simple first down if Ragone would have just held on to the ball.
  • Overall, the offense is still too inconsistent. At times it looks like a well-oiled machine for a few series only to follow those up with three three and outs in a row. The three game stretch of Western Michigan, Navy, and Tulsa should give the offense an opportunity to gain a little momentum.
  • One of the biggest issues holding the offense back right now is the lack of downfield passing. Most of Crist’s completions are coming on simple routes that aren’t allowing for many yards after the catch.
  • Cierre Wood ran tough today when he got his chances. It was nice to see him bounce back after a rough outing last week.
  • Michael Floyd played very physical today, but still isn’t being involved in the offense as much as he should be. Kelly needs to start calling more plays for him downfield where he can just run down the field and use his size to get the ball.


  • For the second week in a row, the defense was pretty solid, but got burned deep on a coverage breakdown. Mike Mayock gave a pretty good breakdown of the Jonathan Baldwin long bomb during the game – Jamoris Slaughter can’t drop his coverage when he is the last line of defense to go after the quarterback.
  • Speaking of Slaughter, he had a particularly rough game and might not have too much fun during film sessions this week.
  • On the other hand, Harrison Smith played one of his best games in a Notre Dame uniform. He was all over the field and nearly had a game sealing interception.
  • I’d like to see Notre Dame bring more pressure. When Notre Dame’s blitzed the last few weeks they’ve been successful more often than not.
  • It was nice to see Prince Shembo register another sack. Notre Dame is really in need of edge pass rushers right now and Kerry Neal and Brian Smith have been largely ineffective in that capacity. Darius Fleming had one of his better games as well, but overall Notre Dame has been not gotten much of a pass rush out of the outside backers.
  • At the same time, Shembo showed his inexperience on the bootleg touchdown run by Tino Sunseri and a play action pass later in the game. That is to be expected to a point, however, for a true freshman.
  • Robert Blanton played a great game and made some very nice tackles, but he too got fooled on the Sunseri bootleg touchdown run.
  • Ian Williams has become one of the better nose tackles in college football this season. He is playing exactly like how a nose tackle needs to play in a 3-4 defense.
  • Kapron Lewis-Moore started to emerge against Pitt.  He made a couple nice stops in the run game and got some pressure on Sunseri.  Zeke Motta is also started to emerge and had his best game of the season.
  • Today was a slow ay for Manti Te’o – mainly because Pitt threw the ball 39 times and abandoned the run for large stretches of the game. His roughing the passer penalty could be seen as a little ticky tack, but Te’o had enough time to stop or avoid any contact there.
  • Outside of Dion Lewis’s 30 yard run on 4th and 1, the defense did a nice job bottling up the Pitt running game.  After the show Dion Lewis put on last year against the Irish, that was nice to see.

Special Teams

  • Not enough can be said of David Ruffer’s performance this year.  Not only has he not missed a single kick, but he also broke a Notre Dame record with 15 straight field goal makes on a 50 yarder that cleared the crossbar by a few yards.
  • The return game still doesn’t look right.  After a promising first game, the return game has not been a factor for the Irish.  Bennett Jackson has shown some promise, but there just haven’t been many lanes for him to run through
  • Ben Turk had a whale of a game.  He struggled mightily at the beginning of the season, but he found his leg on Saturday with two 50+ yarders enroute to averaging 46.6 yards per kick.  Three of Turk’s five punts ended up inside the 20 yard line as well.  You never want your Punter to be one of your best performers since it means your offense isn’t moving the chains, but Turk was one of Notre Dame’s best performers against Pitt.
  • John Goodman is proving to be a sure handed punt returner, but hardly had any chance to do much else with Pitt’s coverage reaching him just as each punt did.

You may also like


  1. This is what pisses me off writers like whitlock(if that’s what he calls himself) use tragedies to bash players, coaches, or universities so they have something to write about.He’s like a union leader at a union rally just saying things to get people all fired up and see things the way he sees things.(I work for a union :). It doesn’t matter the truth. I just get mad at all the anti-notre dame hatred that has to do with things other then sports.

    1. I’m betting Mr. Whitlock got another rather famous college sports scandal WAY WRONG. Anyone remember the Duke Lacrosse case? He was determined to see that case through the well-worn prism of “class” (so called) and privelege. He reminds me of all those completely useless animals called New Black Panthers who walked around outside the Durham Cty. Courthouse, harrassing the players and their families. “Justice will be done!”, they pontificated.

      Yup, it sure was done. And, as nd forever noted, things like this many times are not about the truth.

      The opportunists will be all too happy to exploit, per usual.

  2. SFR-
    Whitlock is a no-talent oxygen thief and hack. He’s calling for Kelly and Swarbrick to be FIRED? Really? Granted, should gross negligence be found involving Kelly etc., sure. But my god, it happened 24 hours ago! We don’t even know if Declan decided, HIMSELF to go up on the lift, against the advice of others! I’m not saying that’s what happened. I’m saying nobody knows yet. Yes, people will probably lose their jobs and ND will be writing some checks, no matter what. But to use this tragedy as an opportunity to bash ND (which by extension Witlesscock is doing) is unconscionable.

  3. FXM,

    The sharks are circling the waters. I think it behooves BK to come out ASAP and make a personal statement. However, by now the lawyers are involved and any personal statement is going to have to be vetted by them for approval before its made publicly. God knows how long that’s going to take. As for ND, I trust school officials are doing the right thing. Why should any of us here suspect otherwise (talk about being disloyal to Our Lady’s school, as some of us have been accused of being). The Mass was the right thing to do beyond just public opinion; as a Catholic school, this Mass was theologically appropriate and mandatory. I trust that that’s just the beginning of the university’s committment to honor this young man’s memory and do the right thing to do for his family’s sake as well as that of the ND community.

    1. I agree whole heartedly, and this is no time for PR, I think a sincere and brief statement would be beneficial, not a mea culpa, just the facts, this happened, it is tragic, god bless.

  4. BK’s character under heavy fire on the local foxsports 970 in Pittsburgh for lack of a personal public statement.

  5. Chan,

    I understand and was in no way alluding to you in my post above. In fact, I think you’re probably the only one qualified to give an informed opinion on this tragedy, from the sound of things. I for one have learned a great deal from you about what’s going on here and would appreciate more of your input as we all deal with this loss.

    I just think it’s SICK for someone to misinterpret my thoughts on this tragedy for the sake of an old score that I’ve already forgotten about (as I had happily forgotten about this person until just now). Some people are so SICK they’ll use any excuse (even a tragic death) to hold on to a grudge.

  6. Let me be crystal clear. This is a tragedy. I’ve commended those who have prayed for Declan’s family. We should all have them in our thoughts and prayers right now.

    (No, friends, I refuse to take the bait and be suckered into an inane debate with a certain person who apparently is intent on using this tragedy as an excuse for more personal insults directed at me. That’s truly SICK! I will not let him or anyone misinterpret my words or sentiments, however.)

    I also refuse to let Jason Whitlock indict BK or anyone until all the facts are in. There’s something called the rule of law and due process in this country. Perhaps Jason Whitlock should recall that next time he fancies himself a lawyer and wants to publicly prosecute a case.

    This isn’t the time to let anyone condemn anyone until all the facts are in. This is a tragedy, no doubt; but we must wait until due time and process have taken place before we know who to hold guilty of this young man’ death. Let’s not add to the tragedy by indicting anyone right now. That’s unfair to the victim’s memory, his family and friends, the ND community, and the laws of our land.


    1. I’m with you on that note SFR! I’ve been a little over the top with my responses about this topic. And I’m not gunnin for anyone… I just want to see the right thing done here.

    2. Steelfanrob,
      I agree people should wait untill all the investigation is over.unfortunately this is a guilty untill proven innocent society instead of the way it should be. Being a head coach especially the head coach of Notre Dame the publics opinion matters.It’s not right but that’s society. I believe(not hope)Kelly will be fired and black balled in college football.I believe he is a great man and a great coach.I don’t think there is much he can say to change the majority of peoples mind about what happened.

  7. I could live without ND football if we could have this young man (Alum) back to life. To even mention or worrying about the next football win in the same context is not “trivial” it is SICK!

      1. I read an article that said at Michigans practice they had the lifts up but only at 20 ft. The thing is other universities have done this also.The thing is it’s Notre Dame, people love to hate Notre Dame. The sad part is it took a trajedy like this to open peoples eyes and put policies in place that should have been put in before anyone went up on a lift. I don’t think Brian Kelly is responsible I think he was trying to get his team ready in case it was really windy for Saturday.I do think Kelly may get the majority of the blame however.He is the face of the program.A lot of mud will be slung before the investigation is over I just people would wait and see what protocol was in place. Being a head coach when I’m at practice that’s all I focus on not my cameras but we have a protocol in place and our kids have wind meters on the lifts just for these things. if it hits 20mph they get down.It’s tragic and I love Notre Dame football but it is hard to think about football.

  8. Yes – I read No Whit-lock’s article and, as always he uses his ability to discuss an edgy topic and push it to the limit be using his skin color.

    This is a horrible tragedy and it makes me physically ill thinking about it. ND will have to pay a step financial penalty for this incident and will carry a black cloud over the head of the program for a while.

    With that said, I want to throw this out there. Does everyone assume that just because another head coach (Tressel) made a comment about the cameramen’s safety that Brian Kelly is to blame for this? How do we know that Tressel wasn’t prompted to that issue by someone, eh, lets say director of football operations or the football video manager that it might be an issue?? Are we believe that BK ordered the kid to get in that lift and brave the storm knowing full well the safety parameters of the lift is 20ft? There is a wide gap between the young man that died and Brian Kelly with many other people in between that know a lot more about safety concerns than BK or any coach for that matter. Also, not to sound completely callus, but we are taking about a 20 year old adult that had every right to refuse to go up or if he was scared, like the tweets suggest, could have requested to get off the lift. I am quite sure no one forced him to go up in that lift or refused that he came down if he was scared.

    Again, this is a horrible situation and my heart goes out to Declan’s family, but we can’t blame just one person for this incident as the blame can be spread around to many individuals.

    1. The Tressel interview was 24 hours before the ND incident.

      As far as a 20 year old being of sound mind to say no I’ll give you this…

      Being a supervisor of many 18-20 year old Airmen it is my responsibility to insure that they are not putting themselves in danger nor am I putting them in danger needlessly!

      Often times these kids will take risks to make a name for themselves, or have the attitude that nothing bad will happen.

      It’s my responsibility that these kids come home from deployments to their families. A 20 year old will do stupid shit on a regular basis without thought of the consequences.

      Every…. EVERY company has some kind of “chain-of-command”, because the older more seasoned management & employees are there to provide training, experience (both life and work) and to positively mentor the younger employees. Part of that responsibility is to insure their safety as well.

      I’m unwilling to accept that that there wasn’t at least one person of leadership that isn’t FULLY responsible for the lost life of this kid…. not kid… Declan Sullivan

      Declan should have had people looking out for his safety..

      Let the heads role! This isn’t about football. Football is irrelevant right now. The mothers and fathers who sent their son to ND for an education also expected ND to provide Declan a safe environment as well as to provide extensions of themselves in the raising of their child.

      1. I agree, it’s not enough to say, well, he should have known better. I presume he had a supervisor as well as various other adults associated with the program who should have and could have prevented this tragedy.

      2. I’d like to ask Whitlock if he called for the President of Texas A&M to be fired after the bonfire tragedy a few years back. I mean, isn’t part of a university president’s job to absolutely ensure that his/her student’s safety is paramount? How many kids died? Like 8? Of course, that would be different to Whitlock because he had no dog in that fight, hence no reason to politicize it.

        Yes, I know it’s not perfectly analogous to what happened at ND, but you get my point.

    2. I agree that although the highest profile target, the head coach may not necessarily be the person with ultimate responsibility here. The Tressel comment, although purportedly made prior to Sullivan’s accident and not in response to it, also seems a bit too convenient, and to the extent that it suggests that the head coach is ultimately responsible here, I agree with you that that’s a wrong assumption to make. As you say, it seems there’s a lot of fault to go around here.

  9. Joe and Chan,

    Good observations. I agree that this isn’t a good thing for ND football and heads will roll (heads better roll, at the end of the investigations!). This is a terrible tragedy and someone (perhaps the AD himself) may have to fall on his sword for this one.

    All I’m saying is that we shouldn’t let the Jason Whitlocks of this world make up our minds for us, esp. before all the facts are in. Plus, I wonder if this had happened at his alma mater what his spin would be? I’d almost bet everything I’ve got that he wouldn’t be so quick to pass judgment. make no mistakes, brethren, the ND haters of this world are gloating at this time of loss and pain for the university. These sick bastards (hiding behind their self-righteous “indignation”) are using this terrible happening to try to bring the football program down. The sharks are circling. I agree, things can get really bad really fast.

    At times like this it seems trivial to talk about a mere football game. But this program needs a win terribly at this point given all that’s going on on and off the field. Plus I think this young man would’ve been happy to see his beloved Irish win.

  10. Jason Whitlock as a black bigot. A black racist who hates ND football and makes no secret about it. I couldn’t care less about what Jason Whitlock has to say. If BK had anything to do with this, time will tell. If he did, actions will be taken and he’ll have to live with this tragedy the rest of his life. But I don’t need Mr. Whitlock passing judgment before due time. He’s trying to create an atmosphere of distrust at ND for the sake of bringing down the program, which would be his dream come true. Don’t listen to a word this (probably anti-Catholic) bigot has to say.

    1. I’ll agree that the article read very quickly his thoughts on who is to blame and what is to be done.

      But despite your personal opinions of the man he makes valid points.

      Prepare yourself is all I’m saying. The media, NCAA, SBPD, Attorney’s and many…many others are going to be all over this.

      This is a classic by the book case of negligence.

      1. Ill tell you right now if I had sent one of my guys into a lift in that kind of weather and he was killed. My ass would be court martial-ed in a NEW YORK MINUTE!

    2. I agree that Whitlock is jumping the gun here by calling for BK’s resignation. There’s probably a lot of blame to go around here, since various people either were responsible for Sullivan’s safety and/or could have done something to protect him but failed to do so. There will be a full investigation of what happened, who was responsible, who failed to act, and how to prevent this kind of thing from ever happening again. However, make no mistake about it: this tragedy is more than an embarrassment for ND’s football program. It is an inexcusable tragedy, and it remains to be seen what the ramifications will be.

  11. Has anyone read the article from Jason Whitlock on fox sports about Brain kelly and Jack Swarbrick? Might want to check that out.

    1. “I don’t know if we’ll be inside or out,” Tressel told Ohio reporters 24 hours before the Notre Dame tragedy. “It looks a little nasty. I worry about our cameramen, their well-being up there 50 feet in the air.”

      Man… I’m getting a real bad feeling about how this could unfold.

      Who will be looking into this?

      State of Indiana
      South Bend Police
      Notre Dame
      The Media
      The NCAA
      The Sullivan’s Attorney’s

      Someone’s going to get hit hard with this.

      You know. I love football and most of all ND Football. But right is right and wrong is wrong.

      Someone needs to come forth and except responsibility for this.

      How do you guys see this playing out? Is the author of this article wrong in calling for Kelly job?

      I keep thinking about the quote from Tressel. Tressel openly told reporters 24 hours before the accident that he worries “about our cameramen, their well-being up there 50 feet in the air.”

      Negligence can be an unfair thing but in todays world you have to have instincts and the ability to see everything.

      Attorney’s and the media do NOT care about accidents. Especially those that could have been avoided with a little forethought and following the instruction manual of a lift.

      This could get really bad…

  12. While eating lunch I turned on ESPN and they were doing a story on the Sullivan death at ND.

    Jack had done a press conference where he was talking about the wind “suddenly gusting about” and that “Gatorade and towels” began blowing around and that when he heard the “crash”.

    ESPN also found ‘tweets’ (Twitter) from Sullivan before he was to go to work for the day.

    Sullivan said something to the effect that it was really windy and today should be interesting. But the part of his tweet that struck me is when he said “well I guess I’ve lived long enough”. Obviously he knew that today was going to be dangerous because of the wind. And no one of authority prevented this kid from climbing into a lift so he could “work”.

    A post that ND Forever had posted at 10:45 (october 27th) that morning struck my attention because he had said “I would like to know why they were practicing outside.with 45-50 mph winds how productive of a practice can you have”?

    Being that I’m a carpenter in the military I’ve had to work on many of lifts, roofs, and scaffolding while in the elements. Everyone who has the proper training knows that you MUST consider safety and obey OSHA rules and regs before committing to a project.

    As a supervisor I would never allow one of my guys to extend a lift in that type of weather. I’ll bet that every licensed contractor in the South Bend/Chicago area had shut down their sites where their employees had been working in heights.

    Whoever the negligent party is that allowed this kid to extend a lift 40-50′ in the air in gusty winds is in for a really tuff year.

    I really wish someone would have reacted quicker. Tragedies like these do not need to happen or are at least greatly reduced if you’re properly trained to use equipment and follow the rules of OSHA.

    I’ll be following this story closely that’s for sure.

  13. I am new to the board, boys. My wife graduated from Purdue, I did not go to college. I have been a Notre Dame fan since I can remember. As I read this board I see the same kind of bantering that I do on the IU Scout board concerning basketball. Lots of frustration and pain going around ND football to be sure. Me, I am the painfully optimistic soul with reasonable insight to both sides of the argument.

    Let me address a couple of things, then you can respond, good or bad, I can take it. First, it is ludicrous to suggest BK be put on the hot seat after 8 games! I have always given and always will a coach 4 years to turn a program around. BK needs to get his type of players in to the system. The current players need to learn the new system. Yeah, the did not play well against Navy and it was disappointing. But we did play well against Mich and Mich St. So we digressed. Big deal. As I watched a game several weeks ago (Mich St.?) one of the corners got burned on a hitch and go pattern by the tight end. (may have been Walls)By the time he recovered he was behind the defender by 5 yards or so. He had 40-45 yards to catch the receiver but never closed the gap by a single yard. That to me spoke volumes about team speed (lack of it).ND does get some really good players coming in, but until we can get more speed we can never complete. Same thing on the offensive side of the ball. When is the last time we had a break away back, you know, the kind that once he gets past the o-line he is gone. Longest run from scrimmage this year-41 yards, I believe by CWood.

    I love ND football and have suffered greatly since last the last century, but I will not throw in the towel based on three quarters of one season!

    BK makes mistakes (he will learn), the team does lay down now and again (they will learn)Diaco needs to prepare better (he will). The Admins need to re-evaluate admission standards or relegate our football team to mediocrity.

    I do not mind fair criticism of this team. It is deserved and justified at times. What I don’t like to see are the sons of Our Lady sniping at each other. Heh, we are ND and a hell of lot better than that.There is a way to criticize with civility and with out name calling.

    I have read some articles about the fact we need patience. It is a virtue, you know. One of our core beliefs. So rest easy fellow domers, it will get better. Maybe not this year or even next, but it will come.

  14. There are a few rumors flying around that Ishaq Williams is about to commit to ND soon. He’s listed as a DE, but he has the size / speed for OLB, and would be a huge “trade-up” after losing Clay Burton. He’s from Brooklyn, NY.

  15. Doc,

    God bless you and your friends for your collective prayers for this young man and his family and friends.

    The ESPN blogs on ND are trash indeed! I gave up. (I don’t care if some there believe they ran me off. In a way they did, but not because I was intimidated or couldn’t answer them back. I just felt dirty stooping to that level!) I made a few personal relationships with a few chatters there and they’ve asked me to come back a few times. By now, I’ve forgotten my username and password for that site. I just simply refuse to waste my time engaging morons and bigots. These people refuse to talk about football or listen to logic, preferring to display their ignorance and bias by way of gratuitous insults.

    Doc, I hope you’re right and this tragedy galvinizes the ND community and team. I’m sure this young man will smile down from Heaven if ND wins this one big. Let’s hope this sad event fires every one up on Sat.

  16. No one monitors that ESPN site – it is total trash and not worth wasting the electricity reading. Declan was from the Chicago area, so the news all day on the radio has been tragic, with interviews with family members and former teachers and friends.

    Most of the construction sites were closed down in Chicago Tuesday and Wednesday due to the high winds. I knew it was a matter of time before the storm blew through South Bend, but never thought anything remotely this tragic would happen.

    I was at church last night with a few other fans and he and his family were in our prayers.

    As far as the upcoming game goes, I don’t think Tulsa knows what is about to hit them full force. It’s a huge game for them, but our players have to be sick of losing by now and this one is at home, the students came back from fall break, and this Declan Sullivan tragedy has to wake them up as well and get a little passion in the hearts.

    1. I’m with you guys I can’t stand any article about ND on espn.It’s all garbage, just because you don’t like a univerity or the athletic program doesn’t mean u should be using a time like this to humilliate or scorn the football team and staff. I don’t go to thier websites or espn posts and talk trach to them. I don’t go on espn when they go through tragedies and put down there athletic program.i know we are the most loved and the most hated college team in the country but some people need to grow up! I hope the ND team pulls together plays with heart and tributes Declan in the right way.God bless Declan, God bless Notre Dame.

  17. Have any of you read some of the reader responses to the tragic news of this young man’s death on the ESPN website? My God, what times or country are we living in?! I can’t believe that so many people (most probably church-goers) would use this tragedy to promote their anti-ND bias. This is a scandal. I don’t know who monitors the ESPN chat sites but this is unconscionable and should be blocked. In spite of some of our disagreements here in the past (and no doubt in the future) I hope we can all agree that this is deplorable behavior. I’d suggest (but in no way dictate)that all of us here not to even bother to partake of this morbid discussion on the ESPN site lest we encourage the morons of the world to believe that anyone cares about their sick opinions.


    1. SFR,

      The comments section of ESPN is where the lowest of the low internet trolls dwell. Don’t bother reading it. Ever. The hate that goes on there is beyond reproach. It’d be impossible for ESPN to really police those boards, because there’s just way too many of them. It’s just a waste of your time to even try.

  18. OK much of the same old stuff – maybe BK needs to assess his staff along with the players – He is now at the top level – he needs to realize what worked before might not work here – maybe getting the best D coordiantor out there should be his next goal – you just can’t keep giving up that yardage – no matter it is going to take some time – maybe two or three seasons – a lot of work here

    1. Is Vince Lombardi’s ghost available? I’m almost convinced he’s the only one who can turn this sorry program around.

  19. To add:

    RIP Declan and God’s peace to your family. What a tragic accident. One has to wonder why anyone was up on a scissor lift given the kind of weather we’ve had all over the Midwest the last 48 hours, but that is not a judgement. I wasn’t there and have no idea what happened. Either way, a very sad day for the Notre Dame Family.

  20. Quote of the day:

    It’s worth noting that Bob Diaco’s defenses have given up 400 or more yards eight times in the last 21 games as a coordinator on a Brian Kelly team. Though none of that caught up with Brian Kelly at Cincinnati – included is the 659 yards the Bearcats gave up in last season’s Sugar Bowl loss after Kelly’s departure for South Bend – it has caught up with him in all four losses at Notre Dame.

    I found it noteworthy that Texas head coach Mack Brown essentially put his coaching staff on notice this week following a 28-21 home loss – a second consecutive home loss for the first time since 1997 – to Iowa State on Oct. 23, which dropped the Longhorns to 4-3 this season after competing for the national championship just earlier this year.

    “I told them if one of your guys is playing bad, I can change them,” Brown said Monday. “If three of your guys are playing bad, I change you.

    “I expect [offensive coordinator] Greg Davis to run the offense and get his coaches to get their players ready to play. I expect [defensive coordinator] Will Muschamp to run the defense and get his players, get his coaches to get the guys ready to play … I tell them all the time, ‘Get it fixed.’ That’s their job.”

    1. Well, think about it, Diaco had a lot of time to prepare and got humiliated, this is actually not that prolific of a Navy offense, they have only scored over 30 twice, us and La. Tech. so hey we are in good company. This guy will never oversee a dominate D. And these athletes don’t suck nearly as much as their performance. Stubborn pride and bad defensive judgment roam the sideline of ND once again.

      1. “I told them if one of your guys is playing bad, I can change them,” Brown said Monday. “If three of your guys are playing bad, I change you. ”

        Man I love that comment! I hope Kelly takes that attitude w/ his players and coaches. As Darth Vader said to the Captain in charge of building the Death Star (who was complaining about not having enough resources and expectations being too high):

        “Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them.” 🙂

      2. It’s a powerful statement to make.

        I guess it shows that even teams that have had a system for years can have problems. From the coaches down.

        We’ve talked a lot about how the ND players need to learn and develope. I suppose Kelly and his staff will need to continue to improve their game as well. Kelly has been successful at every step of his coach career. He’s developed players and coach’s. I still believe this guy is the right hire. But I need to continue to tell myself that I need to be patient. It’s hard because I thought that’s what I had been doing for all these years…

      3. I’m not sure this Navy team is all that bad either.

        Keep in mind they walked into Horseshoe opening day last year with swagger and they droped 350 yards of offense on the #6 Buckeyes. Dobbs 4 touchdowns had the bucks on ropes with 2 minutes left to play.

        Had Dobbs not thrown an interception on the bucks 10 yard line Navy would have won that game.

        It’s important to keep in mind that Navy isn’t playin ball like a service academy any more.

        These guys are going to leave every ounce of themselves on the field.

        They are not intimidated by big 10 powerhouse’s on the road with 105,000 bucks fan booing them.

        They’re surely not intimidated by Notre Dame anymore. Hell they probably use all the ass kickings ND has given their service over the years as motivation to pin their ears back and give it their all.

      4. I agree IC- Navy is most certainly not a bad team. And I don’t think they get intimidated. I’m reminded of what Navy’s lacrosse coach said in 2007(I think) before the natl. championship against Syracuse. Asked if they would be intimidated as the heavy underdog (they weren’t supposed to be there), the coach explained that this was simply “fun” for them. The pressures they face off the field and will continue to face after the academy make the sports pressures pretty laughable. I have no doubt this is true. Watching that game w/ SEALS recently returned from Astan seated in the front row, sunglasses on to hide identities and cheering for their brothers, drove that point home.

        All that being said, Diaco’s defense is a hot mess. Any doubt that Tulsa is going to pick up some serious yardage on the ground against us? Bet on it.

  21. I would like to know why they were practicing outside.with 45-50 mph winds how productive of a practice can you have.The only thing I could think of is get ready in case Saturday is this windy.I don’t want to harp on this situation to much just feel bad for the family and I’m sure the team is shakin up over this incident also. God bless the family.

  22. this team has shown streaks of potential which leads me to believe that we ‘can’ win any or all of our remaining games. on the same token, we have shown streaks where we look utterly lost and caught with our pants down. this is how young teams play, wherre the highs are high and the lows are extremely low.

    western mich first half, although we scored a bunch of points, we were outplayed. second half we dominated the game. stanford, offense was terrible but the defense was surprising stout, etc.

    i may be called a douche for being too positive on a top 60 team, but i look to the quarters (boston college first quarter) where we were unstoppable, and can’t help but think how dynamic this offense can be.

    with that said, i wouldn’t be surprised if we went 1-3 or 4-0. you have to admit though, if we pull off either utah or usc, regardless of what else happens, it would shore up recruiting and turn this year into an instant success. i honestly can’t remember the last time we beat a ranked team.

    go irish, beat the no-name midwest team!

  23. I just heard about the student that died.He died from falling off a scissor lift.They believe the high winds played a part.My heart goes out to the family of this kid.I hope ND does something to remember him.

  24. OK we are all finally agreeign on some things – ND right is an average team and we all need to admit it is a rebuilding or just building mode – we can also see how botj talent wise and menrally how empty the situation was here for Kelly – we have to bite the bullet and wait – it needs to be a step at a time – to think 9-10-11 wins was a possibility this year was not realistic seven wins would be great – BK has to get the mind set of winning and in your face attitude in this team and go from there – I know it sucks but we may have to look back on this in a couple of years and see who was right

    1. This is one of my own composisions…
      I hope you all like it.

      “We are playing the team from Tulsa

      Who’s Quarterback is made out of dry balsa

      When we turn loose the blitz..
      and rip off his tits..

      He’s gonna mess his drawers with brown salsa!”


      Go Irish, Beat Tulsa!

      (foregive me lord,,, you know I’m off my meds today)

  25. Shaz,

    Brilliant! (Whatever happened to the beer commercials with those two British guys? I loved how they always said “Brilliant”!)

    I nominate Shaz for this board’s post of limerick laureate. Who seconds the nomination?!

  26. Ted,

    Solid stuff! Thanks for keeping it real and not going negative.

    I still think this season is salvageable even at 7-5. How? Beat the teams we should beat and then beat USC. Beating SC alone should be enough to return a smile to even the worst of “naysayers” on this board! Then win the bowl game. Doesn’t have to be by a lot bur just win the darn game. Heck, even if we finish 6-6 and win a bowl we’ll have done something.

    I know it sounds like I’m settling. Some may even call me a hypocrite for apparently accepting mediocrity. But given where we’re today at the above scenarios are simply the best possible. Like I’ve said, we need to think about this recruiting class. A few breaks here or there and it could be a top 5 class. Then it’s up to BK and his staff to translate that talent and potential unto the field.

    Go Irish!

    1. I don’t know much about Tulsa, but it appears they put up some points. I believe ND will split its last games of the season. May beat Tulsa by a touchdown, beat Navy and lose to Utah and USC. But it wouldn’t suprise me in the least if Tulsa beat us, especially with the lack of confidence AND injuries to ND…

    2. And who remaining on the schedule is a team ND “should beat” after the Navy debacle? Are we playing a DIII team I don’t know about?

      1. Edit: I meant Army not “Navy” in my last post about the remaining schedule. As we all know, we already played Navy. 🙂

      2. Joe — don’t be such a negative naysayer.

        Ok, I couldn’t resist.

        We should be able to stay with Tulsa. We should beat Army.

        Utah and Southern Cal look to be too strong but you never know.

  27. People,

    Let’s let JC rant. The rest of us can talk Irish football. That’s what I’ve been trying to do but continue to get “moderated”. (JC on the other hand apparently has carte blanche to insult freely. Nice job, “Mr. Moderator”!)

    JDH: Didn’t mean to suggest you were calling for BK’s job. But I think Ted raised some valid points.

    Ted: Your valid comments notwithstanding, honestly, are you happy with what you’re seeing from this team? Honestly?

    I thought we’d go 8-4, 9-3 maybe (wishful thinking). I figure we’d lose 2 of games from the Mich., Mich. St., Pitt, Stanford. I also thought we’d lose to Utah and USC. That’s 8-4. Now, upset USC or Utah and that’s 9-3. Either way, 8-4 or 9-3 would be realistic (not ideal but not bad either, esp. in light of Ted’s points).

    No, I’m not being hypocritical and settling for mediocrity. An 8-4 or 9-3 record would’ve been a vast improvement from where we were.

    Now, however, we’re realistically looking at 6-6. There’s no way of spinning that. It’s just mediocre.

    1. steel,

      no. i’m not happy with what i have seen thus far. cav’s post is right on. we have been bad for a long time. charlie’s bcs appearances proved that we were far from a top 10 team even at the pinnacle of the last 15 years.

      my point is that we need to calm down and accept a rebuilding year.

      the spread and similar pass happy offenses ebb and flow with quarterback play. just ask florida and texas how easy it is to replace a qb. it is likely tcu will completely fall off the map once their 4-year starting qb leaves. same with boise state, although i think moore is still a junior. usc struggled last year with barkley but appears to be turning it around. stoops was on the hotseat going 7-5 last year when bradford was out, but was #1 last week. the list goes on.

      you can look at my posts before the season started. i got accused of being a ‘rubber necker’, saying that we would not go to the bcs this year. i knew coming in this would be a tough year, and injuries have only made it worse. it was the outlandish expectations coming into this year that make the reality hard for many to accept.

      1. navy is a good team. i repeat, navy is a good team.

      2. we are not a good team. we are in a rebuilding year.

      3. it is harder for teams to ‘reload’ in the new spread offense. there is no amount of preparation that will compensate for game experience for the qb

  28. I just read an article that sums up where this team is with Brian Kelly. Here is part of it:

    The cold, hard fact is Notre Dame is a 4-4 team. No more, no less. The Irish don’t have the studs on defense to compete with faster, stronger opponents. They don’t have the experience at quarterback, despite the potential of Dayne Crist, to engage in a shootout. They don’t yet have the grasp of Kelly’s system to overcome physical disadvantages. And those disadvantages have been amplified by injuries to big-time players such as tight end Kyle Rudolph and now nose guard Ian Williams.

    The article was on ND fans having patience with Kelly. I know I’m going to get crucified by some on this board about having patience because we haven’t won in along time. However, here is the reality, ND had gone 95-72 since Holtz, which is a 57% winning percentage. Kelly did not inherit a BCS program, he inherited a high-profile version of Cinncinati. I’ve come to grips with the fact that Mark May is right, ND is just another team in college football. We have done nothing to prove this wrong and we all need to stop thinking we are something we are not because change will not happen until this thinking changes from the top down. The problem with ND is that the higher-ups thought they could just plug in anyone at head coach and this team would return to the top. Well, 3 failed coaches have proven that’s not true.

    What ND needs is a coach that has proven he can build a program from the bottom up and that is why Kelly is right for the job. He has the track record and while he has made some questionable decisions, he is not in over his head. He will become a better coach because of all of this, but the most important thing is that he is building a foundation that we lead to future success. If he can do it at Cincinnati, he will be able to do it at ND. He needs to recruit players that will fit into his system. He needs to understand the ND culture and adapt his sytle to it. All of this takes time.

    I’m willing to take lumps this year to build this program back because 14 years of poor play can not be replaced in less than a year. This team needs to get to 6 wins so they can get the extra 15 practices that a bowl game would give them. Who cares what bowl, this program needs 15 more practices to lay the foundation.

    If along the way we can upset Utah or USC and win the bowl game, all the better. But this is simply about changing the “Culture of Losing” at ND. A winning% of 57% since Holtz is the reality. Kelly only lost 4 of those games, the rest are not on him. His job is to clean up the mess and get this moving in the right direction. Even thought ND has lost a couple of recruits, they are still going to finish with a top 10 recruiting class. We need to forget about the fool’s gold first year of Ty and Charlie and go back to seeing what the coach can do by year 3.

    I’m tired of the excuses and I choose to see ND for what they are, a team that averages 7 wins each season. I’m going to root for them every week despite their record because I am a ND fan. I’m excited about the future because if you don’t have hope, why watch at all. If ND is still like this by the end of Kelly’s contract, find someone else. I also understand that our best days may be behind us, but that still will not stop me from cheering on ND and hoping for a day when this team can consistantly win 10 games a year.

    1. Thanks Cav for giving some insight. BK is recruiting for the holes we have. I think everone on this page agrees on one thing – defense is giving too much up – and that is just how that side of the ball was recruited for over the past five years. With Burton defecting, perhaps one or two of those other four star OLB / DE players we are chasing might be more apt to come to ND.

      I’m not ready to be satisfied with a 7-win season, but I do believe 9 and 10 loss seasons are just down the road and we will have another National Championship Season.

      Glad to see Jack is scheduling real opponents versus a cupcake schedule. That is one less bullet for the ND haters to have.

      We need to start upsetting ranked teams, especially in our own house so people have a fear of coming to town. Even during the Faust years, we were able to pull that off and with authority (and then go “0” for October). Not to sound like an old fart remember the good old days, but we had a typical Faust team going up against a ranked team with a super stud running back that returned the opening kick-off and had a face to face meeting with Bob Crable (if my memory serves me right). He hit him so hard he bent him over backwards and they landed facemask to facemask, and Crable “up-chucked” on the guy. (Wonder how “Bleacher Report” would have spun that one around.) That set the tone for the rest of the game.

      1. Nice posts Cav and Doc. You may alot of good points. I saw that article too. The only “problem” I had with it was the title and premise about “ND fans need to learn what patience is..” or whatever. We do? Really? 🙂
        I get the point though- patience with THIS coach. I hope what you are talking about comes to fruition.

    2. Now that is a post CAV! Well thought out, utilized statistics, honest, and void of wreckless emotional 1 paragraph gut shots!

      This is just my opinion but we all could learn a thing or two from this post. Especially recently. All of us who post reguraly are absalute die hard Irish fans. All of us have our own perspective’s on each others opinions as well as our own insights on how Kelly’s first year as head coach is translating on the field. It’s been frustrating for all of us. The good lord knows that my faith is tested every Saturday espeically when I see ND suffer losses or I get the impression that they (athletes and coachs) simply gave up and allowed themselves to be dominatied by another team.

      But it’s even more frustrating to me that when I come to this board to view all of your thoughts as well as add mine and all I see and write is emotional one paragraph gut shots that have a tendancy to infuriate others.

      From here on out I’m going to try to immulate what Cav has done. I’m going to utilize my passion for football and translate it into good, honest, provacative, well researched thoughts on some Irish Football. Well, as best I can anyways!

      With that in mind I’m not sure what’s going on with Frank. If it were mid offseason and the Irish beat was a little slow I wouldn’t be consearned. But we are mid season and his “flock” of daily readers are hungry for his insights. I truly hope that he has not been faced with a major life hurdel that he needs to overcome. If that’s the case I will say that “we” all wish you “our” best Frank! Hopefully you’re life has become busy with positive distractions that is keeping you from your site.

      What’s your thoughts guys? Would any of you like to try to mimic Cav’s post with me? We don’t have to agree with one another… but we probalby should keep it intellectally passionate while we disagee or agree…

      GO IRISH!!!!

  29. I’ve been trying to send some ND football responses but I’m being censored. But JC can continue to talk smack.

    1. I tried to be reasonable and civil with JC. First time I’ve ever addressed him personally on this board. It didn’t turn out very well. Not the best at taking a little constructive criticism it appears. I was just trying to forego the personal stuff. That backfired…

      1. JDH,

        Here’s the irony. This all started because of a disagreement with C-Dog. I always enjoyed C-Dog’s posts. I thought he was well-informed, bright, articulate, and had a good sense of humor. I never had a problem with C-Dog before. I for one think we need C-Dog back to keep the rest of us honest.

      2. I agree. I’ve always been a fan of C-Dogs and never said an unkind word to him. Never said an unkind word to Irisheye62 or JC either. I, like so many others, simply can’t understand what IE62 is talking about. When I politely (I even wrote “no disrespect intended”) asked him what he meant, he told me I “was trying to be clever”. And you’re already familiar JC’s response to me.

        Oh well. We press on.

  30. JDH,

    What’s more, Ian Williams and the ND coaching staff admit that the injury happened on a legal play. I’ve yet to hear one Irish coach or player complain about chop blocks. How’s that?

    I still insist that what Navy does blocking-wise is legal but reprehensible given the injuries that do result. Having said that, ND needs to know how to counter it. They better learn quick because don’t think Army isn’t going to try and copy the Middies’ game plan.

    Let’s stop crying about Navy’s blocking techniques and move on.

    Let’s talk Irish football, friends, whether we agree or not about this or that.


    1. I saw the game of football in that clip. Offense attacked the LB, he shed the block then jumped to his feet before the whistle was blown. There happened to be a navy player under him at the time. It’s a rough sport… especially at the goal line and when there’s a football bouncing on the turf!

      I just didn’t see anything dirty.

      1. I’m going to expand on my thought there for a second.

        The author of that article compared Albert Haynsworth’s unsportsman like conduct of raising his size 15 cleat 3′ off the ground and stomping on an unprotected players face mask after the play had been blown dead. Most of the player’s were on their feet walking back to the huddle when it occurred.

        On the other hand Neil was trying fighting to protect his knees and keep his body in position to take on another block or the ball carrier for outside contain responsibilities. After keeping his eyes down field he saw the dive and got to his feet to unsuccessfully hold Navy on the goal line.

        It was a goal line situation, bodies everywhere in a huge pile, and a kid choosing to stay in the game and not worry about the guy below his waist….. All BEFORE the whistle had blown the play dead!

        These are two entirely different situations!

        While I agree that these Navy kids are to be admired for their service (I too am military) this is far from the worst sportsmanship they will see over their careers in the Navy and Marine Corp.

        Just had a friend who survived a road side bomb two months ago… A very good friend lost one of team members to a roadside bomb 5 months ago.

        Comparing these kids current careers and what they will face in the future isn’t applicable.

        Football is a rough… violent sport! Service in the military is dangerous… Don’t compare the two.

      2. IrishChan-
        Got ya. I didn’t see the clip because I can’t go to youtube at work…will check it out though. Thanks for your input man.

      3. Looked pretty dirty to me.

        Yet still, within the rules.

        If you watch the clip, you’ll notice a few differences between this and Haynesworth.

        1. The play isn’t over.
        2. He doesn’t stomp on him so much as step on him.
        3. No flag. Not that there weren’t 2 officials within very very clear sight of the play. But still, no flag.

        I mean, when you see how close in proximity and in clear view of the officials the play actually is, It’s really hard to suspend a guy for something that the officials had to have seen and didn’t have a problem with.

  31. Back when the founding fathers of our great university’s and insitutions of higher learning got together and agreed that adding athletics to the curriculum of the college experience was beneficial for developing well rounded students and the future leaders and contributers of society. They had in mind the added values of advanced physical health, team work, dedication, sacrifice, perserverience, mutual respect, fair play, School pride & spirit, sportsmanship, and the enjoyment of organized competition.

    I’ve enjoyed college sports for these very reasons. On any given Saturday, any team can win, agianst anyone, by appling one or more of these values.
    Sadly, over the course of time, many of these values have erroded or been replaced by modern day life styles and monitary incentives.
    College is for learning first and athletics, at least, second.

    These foundations of values can barely be found today. Somewhere in the deminishing light within the smog of hatred, anamosity, self righgousness, greed and disrespect which continues to engulf us, they may still exsist.
    This loss is reflective, all accross the country, in blogs, message boards, and chat-rooms much like this very site.

    There was a time that I could come here, getting away from the stresses of life and work, even if it was only for a few minutes. And share common view points. Give and take encouragement. Interact in the joy of victory, or consolement in defeat.

    A Once a beautifull and unspoiled platform, has erroded into a trash covered, dark, dank, back alley of lies, deceit, and ugliness, that brings me torment, agrivation, and anger. One that has become self perpetuating in it’s undoing.

    The few good souls left, the ones that haven’t moved out, shutter themselves in, often taking cover from the stray bullets of accusations and conjecture, reeling from the gangland warfare of lost civility.

    It is now become some demented cross between “Road Rules, The women of Orange County, Jersey house wives, and survivor” (Althought the survivor part is in name only. Unfortunetly, no one can be voted off)

    I used to have a joke for every occasion. Laughter is the best medicne. As it is in life, fewer and fewer of us can afford such medicne when it is needed the most.

    I will leave you now, returning to my place on KPAX.

    1. “I used to have a joke for every occasion. Laughter is the best medicne.”

      Seriously, your post made my morning. Thank you.

      You think that this message board was once a “beautifull and unspoiled platform?” Better yet, you now think this is comparable to Road Rules and Survivor? Our little message board?

      Why? Is it because people discuss sports and have different points of view and express their different points of view? Come on, Shaz. It’s called dialogue.

      Dissent and debate are necessary in any free society. Message boards this like this advance these tenets.

      1. Exspession of views, insitefull debate, open dialogue, all very worthy attributes. Very worthy indeed.

        But there were times earlier this week, with all the squabbling, name calling, and petty antics,(which I shamfull admit that I got drawn into myself) that reminded me of these shows, and how the participants tear each other to shreds.
        That (sadly) too is a part of free society.
        But I stopped, and in my own mind said “can you hear your self? Do you know what you sound like?
        For that I appologise to anyone that I may have offended.
        As you say, dialogue is good, although some of what was said, I would hardly qualify as dialogue.

  32. Bill,

    My apologies.

    I hope you do appreciate that I don’t like having my loyalties to ND questioned just because I’m not an alum. I think I’ve also raised some valid points about the contributions of non-ND alums to the lore of ND football that were in no way a personal attack on anybody. If anything, they were both informative and a defense of those of us here who some seem to treat as subhumans just because we never attended Our Lady’s school. Who are you or anybody else here to ask for my credentials or reasons to cheer for “Ol’, ol’ Notre Dame” (not suggesting you’ve done that, mind you).

    Also, Bill, if I recall, you yourself have gotten into some long-winded tiffs with others over this or that.

    Regardless, I’m done with JC and C-Dog. If they need to have the last word for some psychological reason, I’m giving it to them. As you were typing your post above I was typing a strictly football response to Ted and JDH.

    1. I get that. I do. And by no means am I saying I’m without fault. Hell I think I got just got into it with IrishEye62 over the caps-lock key. (Still not sure what the hell happened there).

      I’m sorry if I got anyone upset.

      Let’s move on.

      1. Bill,

        Confused? There is alot of that going around.

        I have a friend that got one of those there “herpes” on his eye.

        He came to me, he had no idea how it could have happened.

        So I told him…

        “you’ve been looking for love in all the wrong places”

  33. Ted and JDH,

    Glad to get back to some real ND football talk instead of the childish name-calling (mea culpa!)

    Look, guys, I think there’s a middle ground between both your camps. I think it would be unrealistic for anyone to have thought that ND would win 12, 11, or 10 games this year. The points Ted raises are all valid. Having said that, what we’ve seen on the field is unacceptable, Ted. The Navy game was just a culmination of everything we’ve been seeing all season (plus a lack of heart!) and it all finally caught up with ND and came back to bite us pretty hard.

    I’m not with some here who are calling for BK’s head. But I’m also not blind to some disturbing patterns in his coaching and in this team.

    What we all need to hope for is evolution. We need to see BK start to grow as a coach at the big leagues and we need to see the team put together 4 quarters of ball in all 3 phases of the game. This is the perfect weekend to do all that!

    Go Irish!

    1. I’m definetly not calling for BKs head. I am calling for certain players to sit on the bench against Tulsa. That’s what used to happen when players pissed down their legs and didn’t show up for games. In a perfect world, Kelly should have to sit this one out too.

  34. I think we seriously need a new post from someone, anyone. If only so we can get a clean slate.

    If this were a forum and I were a moderator, I’d have locked this thread a while ago.

    Everyone needs to step back, chill out, and remember why we’re here.

    We’re here because we’re ND fans.

    We don’t all have to agree. But it would be productive if we calmed down, and focused on things we can agree on.

    1. We all know we are fans, we just don’t understand why it has to be so painful. The worst thing I feel about this team is there has been a sickening continuity from the old regime. Porous pathetic defense and a O that can’t do squat in the red zone.

  35. JC,

    Not going anywhere, tough guy. Certainly the likes of you, with your grade-school bully antics and brainpower, don’t scare me any. That’s for sure.

    Look man, grow up. Stop with the personal crap already and let’s talk ND football. You’ve spent the last several posts to me with name-calling. I’ve never insulted you until you just chimed in. I didn’t even know you existed until just today, which means your football related posts are pretty unremarkable and forgettable.

    So, unless you want to talk about something substantive, like ND football, I’m dropping YOU (not this site) like a bad habit. Deal with it, tough guy! You’ll have me around, Lord willing, for a long time.

    For the record: It was your boy C-Dog who started the academic-degree, name-dropping thing. Not only that, he wished me and my family personal harm. That’s where the person you respect comes from. Birds of a feather must flock together, I guess.

    1. Ah, gee whiz, NFL Rob…sorry I hurt your feelings, feels good doesn’t it!

      A dialectic discussion with you is wishful thinking let alone a modus vivendi: “let’s talk football”…..Your way or the highway.

      This forceful and continuous negative bashing of ND football (under the so called real state of reality) is not going to impress anyone but yourself and your cronnies.

      For all you tyros out there it does matter how you tell it, whether you like it or not.

      Unfortunately, the super abundance of profanity on this site tells us exactly where you are in life and what we are dealing with.

      So, being antagonistic in one hand and crying wolf in the other is certainly a blood sport for you NFL Rob.

      Oh yeah, who drew first blood?

      So don’t expect consensus building from me. Nor will I sell my season tickets based on your meaningless and obvious “football assessments; let alone leave this wonderful site.

      Once you realize they are not erecting statues for football critics. (Your no Rockne!)You will realize positive motivation and solutions prevail at the end of the day.

      I’ve been on this site for the last four years and Sub-way Alum pretenders come and go on a regular basis.

      Good Luck with your out dated car lot sales pitch.

      1. Is there any way all the personal infighting could cease? It’s understandable that some of that would go on, but it’s getting stale pretty quick. Disagreeing is one thing. But this thread has turned into “You wrote this”, “I didn’t mean that” trainwreck and a contest of who can use the most latin in an effort to impress. Gay.

      2. It WAS directed at SFR, at you, at everyone else, and at yours truly. Because I’m not without fault. It was an attempt to reestablish some civility and to get on a different track. While I may get emotional regarding the status of the team/school, I don’t call people on this board names or call them out.

        But yeah, we can see how you simply want to deflect anything that comes your way and point your fingers in other directions, as demonstrated by your last response. And I like how you wrote, “your buddy”. That’s cute.

        Whatever big guy- You have the best day ever.

    2. SFR/JC

      “Birds of a feather must flock together” ???

      Let us not forget the second half of the verse which is missing, less we tell only half the story!

      Let me assist if you will.

      “Birds of feather flock together,
      so do pigs and swine.
      Now that you have had you’re say,
      so now shall I have mine”

      1. Shaz,

        Awesome! Wasn’t aware there even was a second half. None the less, point taken. Thanks!

        Probably best to let sleeping dogs lie, however. (Is there more to this saying, too?).

        Good stuff, Shaz. Like I said, I always appreciate your humorous sensibilities.

      2. Nothing more to the “saying” that I know of,
        But I do fancy a good limerick.
        Most are too dirty for this avenue, but I remember one that might suffice…

        “The limerick’s callous and crude,

        Its morals distressingly lewd;

        It’s not worth the reading

        By persons of breeding –

        It’s designed for those vulgar and rude”.

        There once was a woman from Hunt

        Who smoked a cigar with her c***

        Smoke rings did she blow

        As part of the show

        T’was really one hell of a stunt!

        (forgive lord, ya know it’s hard stoppin once ye get goin!)

  36. Amen!

    I used to get some email from Frank off this board years ago. For some reason lost contact with him.

    Does anybody have a personal relationship with Frank? If so, could you contact him and give us an update.

    I personally find his silence alarming.

    For all the criticisms of Frank on this or that, I think we all owe him a debt of gratitude for keeping up with this site. I know that it’s a labor of love for him.

    Indeed, best regards, Frank.

  37. Chop blocking is a part of the college and pro games. It has been for a long time. In fact, Lou’s teams (which ran a form of the option) also were known to use it from time to time (albeit not as much as Navy, since ND had studs on the O line who could blow people off the ball). Jimmy Johnson was known to sulk about ND chop blocking his Miami D players. I, for one, would love to see it removed at all levels of football. That would mean that teams like Navy would have to man-up. They won’t be able to.

    Having said that, it’s still no excuse for ND to get punked like that by Navy. There are ways to counter the cut or chop block. I know the Steelers (sorry, JC, I can say whatever and root for whomever I want!) practice that technique when having to play against the “Doncos”. Lou’s teams also knew how to deal with it. What happened to Ian Williams should infuriate all Irish fans and we should all hope Ian gets to play in a bowl game. Let’s all wish him well.

    As for JC’s rant, it speaks for itself. You’re a class act! When you want to talk football, come back and see us sometime. If not, then I don’t give a shit what you think, internet tough guy! BTW: C-Dog can speak for himself and doesn’t need for you to speak for him. He also doesn’t need to hide behind you. Sounds like you might have a bit more than just respect for C-Dog, macho man. Anybody else thinking a “bromance” here?!

    1. Well, will the REAL NFL Rob please stand up? Tell us how you really feel? No real intellectual discomfort here with your so called ultrasophisticated vainglorious diatribe junior.

      You certainly are a real Pseudo-Subway Alum. Don’t do as I do, do as I preach. Come back and see us when you have an ND degree of integrity. We won’t miss you and your foul mouth.

  38. What’s the scoup on Tulsa? I try to watch as many opponents as possible, but Tulsa doesn’t get a lot of TV time. Saw them last year against Boise State and they played even all the way to the end.

    Could be a case of who has the most turnovers?

    I did read where they were going to come in early and go to the CFB Hall of Fame before they practice on Friday afternoon.

    Hopefully the wind dies down by game time. I know I live in the “Windy City” but today was a little unusual and the weather reports seem to be calling for a normal weather day. (Like Shaz – White Sox Fan – only time I watch the Cubs is with free tickets / free beer and when Smardzija is pitching, and even then it is painful.)

    1. Man I have a bad feeling about the Tulsa game. I’m usually an optimist but when team can score pionts like Tulsa I’m worried.They average 38 pionts per game. I know they havn’t played great competition I just have a funny feeling about this game.The defense has to play sideline to sideline against a spread like Tulsa runs. Very similar to Mizzou they like to put recievers in motion and run the read option.These recievers are a lot like Riddick in the way that they were at one time runningbacks.When clicking it’s a tough offnese to stop.

  39. I lived in Denver when Mike Shanahan was still coach of the Broncos. I’m sure most of you remember (if you follow pro football) that they had the best running game in the league. They put any running back in their backfield and it was off to the races. They used the same blocking schemes as Navy. Those cut blocks.

    It was well known the Broncos had the lightest offensive line in the league. Around 280-285 average. Every damn year they would just run crazy with no names as running backs. IE Rueben Drohns.

    I am not a Bronco fan and was just thinking that most teams were complaining about their blocking schemes. They were perfectly legal. All within the rules. Maybe not right but all within the rules.

    I too cringe when people get hurt. I feel so bad especially when it’s a knee or something more serious. If more coaches in the off season would bring this up to the rules committee and outlaw it that would be great.

    Until then we just have to live with it and counter it. We’re lucky Navy plays by the rules on the football field. Being a 20 year military veteren myself believe me when the Navy and all services go to war there are no rules.

    1. I would also point out that cut blocking is not an illegal blocking method. It takes quick arms/hands to respond to the cut block. But, a cut block is NOT a chop block.

      Regardless, it’s more than a little discouraging to see Fighting Irish fans whining about a legal blocking method. If that is Navy’s blocking scheme, why are our guys so unable to stifle it? That’s the larger issue.

  40. Shaz,

    Good words!

    The “Cubs’ fan” reference of course is to show that winning isn’t inevitable in sports. Cubs’ fans always expect that it will be their turn this season. And for the last century plus they’ve seen other teams win titles. Then it becomes next year. Over and over again. On and on. Mediocrity piled on top of mediocrity. Season after season. It seems that that’s exactly what some ND fans have come to expect and accept. They even sound like Cubs’ fans, Shaz. I’m not calling anyone in particular a Cubs’ fan or a leprechaun. It’s more like and attitude or mindset. (Note that in none of my emails do I say so and so is a leprechaun. I speak generically. I’m sure I didn’t call you a Cubs’ fan. I’m sure I asked a rhetorical question like “Are you a Cubs’ fan?”)

    1. SFR,

      You know why the Cubs haven’t won a world series in a 100 years?

      Because, for the ownership, they don’t have to.

      You see, they fill their ballpark year after year whether they field a contender or not.
      Those idiots will pay, and fill the park to see a 500 ball club.
      The owners get their 1.1mil in attendance. So why invest large sums of money when you don’t have to.

      The White Sox. If they suck, the ballpark is like a ghost town. Southside fans, blue collar fans, they won’t pay for a poor product.
      If the Sox owners want their million plus fans, they better be committed to winning.

      Has ND committed to winning?

      Well, They arn’t afraid to spend money. On coaches, On the stadium, training facilities, equipment, recruiting.
      New AD. Schedule making.

      I think they want to win as much as anyone. They haven’t found the right formula, the right combination. But I believe that they are trying.
      I’ll give them that much.

      1. Shaz,

        Don’t you get it?

        The Cubs have spent a lot of money too on players and managers who all had great reputations before coming to the north side. What happens to these great players with the Cubs reminds me of what happens to our recruits. They get worse by simply putting on the jersey. Same thing with managers. If the Cubs hire you, it’s like you get dumb and make bad coaching decisions. Sound familiar, Shaz? Now, of course, the Cubs don’t have to spend a lot of money on their ballpark. It, like ND Stadium, sells it self. And like ND Stadium, Wrigley Field will be sold out no matter what product is put out on the playing field. And you’re right, Shaz, that’s the problem I keep harping on: the settling for mediocrity and losing.

        It seems to me that the analogies between the Cubs and ND football, ranging from coaches, to players, to fans, is eerily similar, Shaz. It seems like we’re getting to the point where it’s always about next year. Just like it is with Cubs’ fans. Is this a Chitown-S. Bend thing? Regardless, it’s pathetic!

  41. Shaz,

    It was certainly not my intent to drive anybody away. If you can, please encourage C-Dog to come back.

    Having said that, Shaz, did you really read carefully his exchange with me? The man wished me laid off from work. (I’m sure he’ll say that it was all a joke. Ha, Ha. But that’s not really funny these days.) Beyond that, and more importantly, C-Dog suggested that somehow I’m (and others here) are subhumans because we didn’t go to ND. He even dared say that I should join up with Angry Eagle. That was the final straw for, Shaz.

    I do feel bad for C-Dog leaving. (IF he in fact has left the board.) But really, Shaz, is he that sensitive? If so, then perhaps he should’ve thought twice about insulting me and others here. Like they say, Shaz, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

    1. SFR,

      Time heals all wounds.
      So does winning.

      A little cooling off, and maybe some brighter days in the future might do the trick.

      All people are sensitive to some exstent.

      I was born and raised in the south suburbs of Chicago. A white Sox fan through and Through. Somebody once refered to me as a “CUBS” fan.
      I’d rather that I had been compared to the eagle

      Thinking twice is often refered to as “Hindsight” and useually comes too late.

      People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones… and
      he without sin cast the first stone.

  42. Doc,


    Didn’t mean to suggest that you were the one that was saying some others here should think for themselves. I was just reading through some of the posts and someone said someone else should speak for themselves and not let me speak for them. That’s not right. Everyone here is an adult and bright enough to speak their own minds. I think it’s rude to suggest otherwise.

    I agree with Doc about keeping friendly fire to a minimum. But for that to happen all sides have to agree to the cease fire. Don’t expect to insult people and have them just take it all the time.

      1. The Bleacher Report article was good.

        I’ve said this before but I will repeat it: losing to Navy isn’t the worst thing in the world. Navy has some quick and committed players who, along with their coaches, have made that a solid football program. They always play us tough, too.

        But, what kills me and many of us, is that we played without any passion. We played without any sense of direction or urgency. We played like we did under Weis. And, this is in the 8th game of the season.

        So, Kelly better get these 18, 19 and 20 year old kids to grow up a bit. We’ve got to tackle better. We’ve got to finish routes and we’ve got to block better. And, defensively, we need some passion. Fast. I don’t care about the spread/run debate. Either one can work.

        But, we can’t give up 35 points per game. Nobody wins giving up that many points, that many possessions, that many drives. Shoot by midway through the third we knew Navy would run on every play and we STILL had no method of stopping them.

        Let’s hope we’ve seen the worst.

      2. teo-
        I agree with you. The only part of that article that I “sort of” disagreed with was that the Navy loss is worst than the Syracuse loss. I can see it both ways. It’s just that, I think, that Syracuse team was literally one of the worst teams in D1A college football, by most any measure. Not true of the 2010 Navy squad….just an observation.

    1. SFR,

      I agree as well.
      You know I prefer humor over insults.

      For anyone who has been here for a while will tell you, that sooner or later, someone will disrespect you. Butt heads with you. And everyone will draw a line in the sand.
      I think that’s only human nature.
      I have a lot of friends here.
      But can hardly converse with them anymore for fear of someone jumping in and ripping it apart.
      I like C-Dog. Others don’t.
      He was here long before me.
      Now he’s gone. And I doubt he’s coming back.
      That doesn’t sit well with me.
      And today it shows.

  43. By the way, maybe when Mr. Longo is trying to bulk these guys up, he might want to incorporate a little a bit of stretching. Have you have seen more tight hammies in your lives?

    1. Great article. Now everyone that calls us Naysayers just read this article. It is spot on right.

      Brian Kelly is clueless period. All this BS about it takes time. We’re going backwards not forward.

      Anyone who disagrees just read the article. Can’t deny this anymore.

      1. OK it is going to take time -BK has to grow as well – all coaches do. What we are really seeing here is the carry over from the last decade when that “fire” and spirit were lost – has to be reforged – It also shows here how empty CW left the cupboard for Kelly – hte mental attitude is probably tougher to create tahnthe physiscal – how many third and shorts were not picked up over the lastfew years or how many times was the opposition stopped on those same third and twos against “weaker teams” It will take time there wasn’t much to really build on – look at the choices for QB ab running and the OL hasn’t ahd that in your face mentality for a long time

    2. Wow. Certainly a well written article and added some very good points about Kelly that I had in the back of my mind but hadn’t expressed yet.

      I have to say that I was surprised during the game that Kelly had brought in Reese to finish the game. My first thought was that Crist had gotten hurt or Kelly had simply pulled his ass for tossing floaters into triple coverage.

      But then the thought occured to me that he was giving Reese some playing time. Ok. He needs some deveopment but right now? We still have an entire quarter to fight for some points… even if our D and coaches didn’t have an answer for Navy’s offense.

      Is it possible that Kelly deep down in believes that these kids have lost so much that they don’t know how to win?

      1. I hope that Crist sits during Tulsa as well as much of the defense. Don’t want to play? Scared to play? Fine, no problem. But the guy behind you wants to. I know this is unrealistic and very few coaches have the balls to do this, because everything is about $$$, but that’s what SHOULD happen.

      2. Huh? Who said anything about “cleaning house and starting over”? Not I, so your sarcasm seems to be misplaced, stud. To add, the article I referenced doesn’t call for that either. But if you think sitting players for one game means “starting over and cleaning house”, that’s your perogative.

  44. My heart goes out to Ian Williams.
    Reports say that the big fellow will miss up to six weeks with a torn MCL, most likely ending his senior season.
    (This shit really pisses me off)
    Last I heard, before the Navy game, was that he was really moving up the NFL charts, and was being considered as a first day draf choice.
    But let’s not get delusional about all this. Williams has been a four year starter for ND. He knows full well that Navy chop blocks. Navy has been chop blocking for years. His coaches should have coached him up on this. Heck, if he was on one of Lou Holtz’s teams, he would have played right through that little ol MCL tear. Chop blocking never bothered Lou’s players.(just ask SFR. Or read it for your self right here, a little further up on this very page)
    Heck, working your butt off for four years to make your self a possiable first round NFL draft pick, only to have some, non rated, high school player, from Navy, blow your knee out at Giants stadium (which is as close as that kid will ever get to the NFL) ending your college career, and possiably jepordising a NFL career and the millions that go with it, is just a part of college football and the wholesome game that teaches mutual respect, fair play, and sportsmenship. I guess poor ol Ian is just one of those “chips” that fall where they may as Jud so eloquently put it.
    Wouldn’t want to complain about it too much though, that’s just so unbecomming of a real ND fan, and shows really poor taste!
    I got it! Maybe we can start a pool. We can all pick a ND player who we think will get his knee blown out in next year’s Navy game! Doesn’t that sound like fun!

    1. Okay, it’s more than a little ridiculous that you’re blaming Navy for Williams’ knee injury. How many SMU players had their seasons ended by a Navy “chop” block? How about Wake Forest or Louisiana Tech players? Maryland?

      1. Rediculous…
        Of course it’s rediculous.
        Utterly rediculous!
        Let me ask you since you were in the locker room after the game.
        How many players having their knee blown out does it take before it becomes of any importance to you?
        Obviously more that one.
        I don’t give a rat’s ass about Wake, Louisiana Tech, or Maryland.
        I care about our guys. Guys like Ian Williams.
        You lose out on a $15 million dollar NFL contract big shot, then talk to me about what is, and what isn’t rediculous in today’s college game.

      2. Ian Williams is NOT a first day draft choice. I feel for him like many of us and yes it could cost him millions but let’s get something straight what Navy did was LEGAL. You know, within the rules. How do you complain about that sir? It may not be right but who cares, it’s LEGAL. Navy plays within the rules, good for them.

        If you’re going to get mad, direct it to the person really responsible that’s BK. He doesn’t have a clue!

      3. Ian Williams, at the time of his injury, was not a first day draft choice. But he was moving up the charts. And with four regular (and a possiable post season games, as well as the senior bowl,
        who’s to say(besides yourself of course) that he couldn’t improve to a first rounder?
        I challenge you to fine one remark, one statement, one single induendo where I said that Navy’s blocking scheme was illeagle. Can’t do it.
        Never said it. Never have.
        Never said that Navy cheated.
        Did you get that?
        All I said is that my heart goes out to him.(Williams) That seeing good kids, good players, players who work their butts off, get carted off the field year after year pisses me off.
        Can you understand that on your own, without SFR’s input?
        Did you get it straight?
        That shit pisses me off.
        Almost as much as your shit pisses me off!
        I care for the players.
        I don’t care about you.
        I don’t care about your feelings, your opinion, your point of view or your piece of crap advice.
        See how that works.
        That’s not complaining, it’s like you do, it’s constuctive criticism.
        Want to get mad. Get mad. Like you said “Who cares”

      4. Leading with your helmet was LEGAL for a very very long time. Head slaps, hoarse collar tackles, and many other rules have been changed because of the players potential for injury.

        The game has evolved to trying to protect the players health. The NFL and College game recognize it’s better to have a teams best players on the field instead of sitting because of concussions and knee injuries.

        People get hurt in some cases not only damaging their future and current careers but their health as they grow much older.

        I think that Shaz is simply stating that it is time for the NCAA to investigate cut blocks and the likely hood for injury.

        Historically Shazs comments about cut blocks are that they should be made illegal to protect the athlete.

        Many others posts that oppose Shazs are arguing a completely different topic and that it’s ND’s problem that they could “peel” off the cut block to make a play.

        You’ll never agree if you both are arguing about a different topic.

      5. Thank you IC:

        Sometimes if people would actually say what they mean there would be less confusion. Of course it should be made illegal, but until it is made illegal it is up to teams to counter it.

        Shaz keeps saying it pisses him off, it pisses him off, it pisses him off. What or who the hell pisses him off? NAVY??

        The NCAA may never make it illegal to cut block so it is up to teams to counter that move. Are people going to get hurt. You bet. This is football. Lots and lots of athletes get hurt. If someone gets hurt badly on an illegal hit then there’s something to bitch about.

        Navy is just a better team. That’s hard to swallow. Give them their due. They earn everything they get. So do we I suppose.

      6. I’ve been attending and watching ND football for 40 years.
        Our players get hurt all the time, agianst a wide variety of teams, with a wide variety of injuries.
        But rarely does a year go by when we play Navy, or Air Force for that matter, that one of our guys has his knee taken out during that game.
        40 Years. Almost every year it’s the same thing.
        Two years ago it was Brian Smith. He missed the last two games of his sophmore season, and in my opinion, he has never been the same player since.
        It’s not the pro’s. It’s college football. These kids are used enough as it is.
        They don’t get paid.
        To have your knee taken out is no small thing.
        Shouldn’t protecting them be a priority?
        You can’t hardly touch a QB any more. But a defensive lineman is fair game?
        IC mentions head slaps, horse collars, and helmet to helmet hits. Then there’s face mask, clipping, crack back blocks, blocking below the waist on punts and kick-offs,tripping, leg whips, late hits, not to mention personal fouls that might include eye gouging, biting, and punching.
        But nothing on cut blocking?
        Isn’t it a double standard for a defensive player?
        40 years of seeing our guys play Navy and Air Force and get carted off the field with a blown out knee.
        That’s what makes me mad.
        I don’t care if it is legal. There are enough Knee injuries as it is, without allowing that nonsence to continue to go on.
        Of my own personal opinion, (this is just me), I think it’s allowed to continue just to help the academy’s. Nobody else really blocks like that.
        Now ther are situations where a submarine block is used. Like in 3rd and short, 4th and short, and goal line plays. But the defense is prepared for it. I’m talking about the other 40,50, or 60 running plays. That’s a lot of plays to have someone diving at your knees.
        Getting through a game like that without a major knee injury is the exception any more!

    2. Don’t be delusional nobody in the NFL would take any member of this team on day one, maybe just on principal. That’s like after passed the crack pipe around last year we thought that Clausen and Golden were high picks.

      1. What great fans!

        Your concern for Ian Williams and his health, well being, and future asperations is so overwhelming and heart felt that it just brings a tear to my eye!



        Never mind…

        It was just some gas out my crack pipe!

  45. PRTB: I hope so, too. The offense looked good on that first drive and I was thinking of you when they ran that quarterback sneak instead of handing the ball to Roger Hughes (his token play of the game). We played catch up after that moment. I hope we can pick up that Huggins kids from NJ, as he appears very intelligent and has good speed and power. (Not sure exactly who said it first – but three things happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad.)

    I cannot fathom what happened on defense. What is surprising is that we did exactly what we were supposed to do on a couple of the plays – I watched the replays and they are “art in motion”. Dobbs hands off to the fullback all day until he sees the end try and pinch the play and collapse on the hole off center. (I only saw the ends pinch a few times in the whole game.) The tackle, whose job it is to block the end has made a commitment to block (and missed) the end, allowing a gap for the outside linebacker to penetrate and get in the quarterback’s face – he pitches the ball to the trailing back, who at this point has Manti with crosshairs on him. (The guard was supposed to block the Te’o after he helped clear the hole on the nose tackle, but got caught up in the C.F. caused by the end pinching.)

    Enough. Game over. Hopefully they take something away for the Army game. I will be at the Utah game (don’t worry – for an old leprachaun I will be on my feet the whole game and will block three rows behinds me, so they will have to stand up as well) and will make noise. It would be nice to knock off a rated team for once.

  46. when coach kelly was hired i was disappointed in one breath b/c he was bringing a pass happy offense to the cold weather stadium and didn’t understand the concept of winning with ball control….

    I was happy b/c of his resume and appeared to win Right away with less superior teams….
    and he beat teams last yr with cincy that ND lost to..

    I really dislike the offense and now that they are losing, my patience is gone…. I want Kelly out b/c (i hope i eat my words) I think he is WKG- that is the Wrong Kindof Guy.

    I hope i eat my words…

    1. I’m not ready to give up yet. Like you I’m NOT a fan of the Spread. It’s simply not the kind of football that I grew up loving. Plus, I feel like you need a superstar to make it work well. Denard Robinson would have that UM team in the top 10 if Michigan had a stout defense. Florida had Tebow… maybe one of the great college qb’s ever (for the spread system).

      To me is seems like I’ve been sold the best “as seen of tv product EVER” only to get it home and it’s a piece of shit.

      I bought into all the hype with Kelly…his vision…his trainers… LOVED THE 34 DEFENSE… Attitude and his Notre Dame CREED.

      But I just haven’t seen it yet… but I’ll be patient. I’ll try my damndest to be patient.

  47. I’ve actually grown numb to the losing. Seeing us get pummeled on Saturday didn’t faze me at all. I’m not even mad anymore and i don’t feel like watching the rest of this season.

  48. It is totally unexceptable to have no Idea on how to stop Navy’s offense.. I hope we figure something out before we play army… but on a positive note, good for our men in uniform…

  49. The Reason we lost to Navy above any other reason was that our DEFENSE wasn’t fundamentally sound…. which is ludicrous b/c everyone going into the game new what offense NAVY was going to run….. Highschool coaches around the Nation could tell you how to stop the FUllback in option football.

    ND___Ludicrous coaching let the fullback run wild with Kapron and E. Johnson with QB responsibility allowing all Offensive lineman to block down on Ian williams and LB’s…Ludicrous allowing back up Navy Fullback to rush for 206 yards and not breaking 1 tackle….. Maybe he broke 1
    Coach Kelly admitted himself it was a coaching mistake on defense….

    This loss 99% coaching maybe a NFL Defense could have stop NAVY with ND’s scheme

  50. losing burton=not good

    hopefully this had more to do with the fact that we are loaded at d-end in this class than it does getting spanked by navy. i imagine – of course this is 100% speculation – he was leaning florida and waiting for an offer, navy was just the final straw.

    i am still optimistic we can win 2, 3, or even 4 of our final games. however, i was at the western mich game. if we had turned the ball over 3 times instead of western mich, we could have easily been down big going into half (just like navy game). and who knows how the team would have reacted. this is a no balls comment but while i think we can win 4 games, i also think we can lose 4 games. i have no idea which team will show up each quarter.

    here’s to hoping kelly can get us bowl eligible and spring-board into next year with some momentum.

    go irish!

  51. Doc,

    Whatever you say!


    Of course the delusional will try to spin this. Right after the Navy debacle I got into this same issue with I believe Cav (sorry, Cav, if I got you confused with someone else). Cav(or someone else) said that the loss to Navy would actually help recruiting. I predicted this very thing. We all need to agree that we need to finish at least 7-5 (that means beating wither USC or Utah). Why? Because our recruiting class hangs in the balance. If we finish 6-6 or, God forbid, worse, we won’t have a top 25 class much less a top 10. The vultures will snatch up our recruits left and right (hasn’t it already started? First Prestwood and now Burton.). We need BK to get things straight ASAP for the sake of the future of the program.

    1. ROB: Wish there was some legal way to put your passion for this team into keeping those recruits from Florida from bailing on us. . . . We can’t afford to lose Rabasa and Lynch.

      PS: Thanks for being on our side, but let’s keep the “death by friendly fire” to a minimum.

      1. Doc,

        How about you do the same.

        You just can’t expect people to be called disloyal to ND for expressing valid criticism and just take it without at some point getting sick and tired of being bullied, Doc. I, for one, dislike to have my loyalty to ND football questioned by people who don’t know me and haven’t seen me cry, sweat, and, yes, bleed for the Irish (like I said, I grew up Catholic and an ND fan in the south; let’s just say I wish flying fish, as opposed to flying fists, was the only thing I had to worry about as a kid).

        You’re spot on about needing to keep our other D line prospects, Doc. Like I’ve said, and I believe I’ve read you concur in the past, we need to get better in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

    2. Oh yeah, the sky is falling, let’s surmize the demons, NFL Rob.

      What? Your superior prediction came true? Imagine that. LOL!

      1. Doc,

        Perhaps you should counsel JC about keeping friendly fire to a minimum. See what I mean, Doc. I’ve tried several times in my recent posts to encourage more civility. Yet, others decide to attack and ridicule. I know we’re all supposed to turn the other cheek, Doc, but that’s easier said than done. Am I right?

        Please don’t insult others here by suggesting that I’ve brainwashed anybody about anything. People can think for themselves without me telling them anything. In fact I’ve learned a great deal more from you all than I’m sure you’ve learned from me.

        As for JC, I’m loyal to all my teams. Just like I can have more than one friend and be loyal to all of them, so I can root for my college and pro teams at the same time. Last time I checked, genius, the Steelers didn’t have the Fighting Irish on their schedule. And at least unlike some others here, yes, you’re damned right some of my predictions do come true. Trying be right some time and perhaps you’ll know what it feels like!

        You know, this is the second time someone has called me out for also being a fan of a pro football team. Am I the only one on this board who has a passion for both a college and a pro team? I’m sure JC also follows pro football. If he doesn’t , that still doesn’t give him the right to belittle those of us who do. Someone in the past said I should stick to rooting for my corporate team. Which one is that? Last time I checked ND was one of the most (if not the most) corporate college team in America. How many other college football teams have their own corporate sponsor to televise all their home games? Plus, last time I checked all other college teams who have their games on TV are doing so on for-profit stations. Need I also bring up the corporate affiliations of the bowl games? I think JC and some others here are truly hypocrites for calling me out for following my “corporate” team. (Perhaps we should all become communists and not have to worry about corporations.)

      2. Yeah, poppy-cock-psycho-jabberwocky. NFL Rob, you certainly fit your assessed personal jackbooted delusional catagory 1 $ 2.

        Stop whining and get over your yellow journalism and yourself.

        Yes, I would agree on your exclusive predictions and superior to all others mentality…Clearly, you are a legend in your own mind.

        Yes, Russia would be a good place for your dictatorial disposition……..leaving soon?

        “Oh we all need to agree 7-5”

        Hypocrite? Oh, it’s OK to Bash C-Dog on his preditions?

        Sure, one sided civility?

        Grow-up sonny boy, and take your negative corporate car lot sales presentation somewhere else for ntertaining neophytes.

  52. Doc,

    Notre Dame, Our Lady would be redundant. The alma mater makes sense as it is since it captures both facets of the Holy Mother’s nature, lady and mother. Clearly you’re not a foreign-language major. Perhaps you and C-Dog were both in the engineering program at the same time. That would explain your linguistic limitations

    1. SteelfanRob,

      It is unfortunate your ego has been seriously injured by not having a degree from ND.

      However, this adversarial rancorous debate pitting Alums vs Subway Alums needs to stop.

      Furthermore, indulging in hatefulness is not going to elevate your status as a Subway-Alum.

      By the way, I could careless if you have six degrees. I suggest you and your buddies stick with the NFL and take your bush league comments and accepted profanity back to the NFL boards.

      I’m sure they will enjoy your brand of esoteric trivia.

  53. People can say what they want about being patient ad nauseum, but whoops there goes another recruit, Clay Burton signed with the devil. Who can blame him when you see the navy debacle. Defensive recruits are going to tumble, who the !@#$% wants to be humiliated like that.

    1. FXM – sad part is that I believe he was kind of the “leader” of the whole Florida group that was originally planning on coming up here. He was the right size for an outside linebacker and we obviously need some speed there after last weekend.

  54. Doc,

    Please tell me you’re being ironic and simply aren’t a moron.

    ND’s original name was Notre Dame du Lac. That translates, genius, into Our Lady of the Lake.

    Below you’ll find a link to an official ND publication that will inform you about your own alma mater.

    Like I said: Our Lady and Our Mother are one and the thing, thus the words in the song. However, Notre Dame is technically Our Lady, contrary to your intimation.

    Case closed. I’ll leave the fool to his own folly.

  55. I will write to alumni board to see if we can’t get the alma mater words changed to “Notre Dame, Our Lady” . . . . .

  56. BTW (Some) ND Alums:

    “Notre Dame” technically means “Our Lady”, not “Our Mother” as has been suggested above by a ND grad no less (although they are, of course, one and the same!)

    I read somewhere a while back that there aren’t enough all-time ND grads to fill the new ND Stadium (perhaps someone knows the stat of the top of their head). Yet, I’m supposed to believe that less than 100,000 grads from the school’s start til today can account for the cultural icon and phenomenon that is (was?) ND football. What a crock of you know what! ND football owes its existence as much to the “subway alumni” as it does to Knute Rockne, Gus Dorais, Frank Leahy, etc. Millions of despised Catholic immigrants from Italy, Ireland, Poland, and Germany fell in love with ND football in the early 20th c. and made it great, long before C-Dog or Doc were born. Regardless of whether or not we went to ND — We’re all Her loyal sons!

    Am I the only non-ND alum on this board? If not, then I hope the rest of you “subway alumni” feel as strongly as I do about our role in the history of ND football and don’t let a few self-absorbed ND grads here dictate to us whether or not we’re allowed to root for Our Lady’s football team and how we should do so!



    1. No you’re not the only subway alum on the board. I’ve had countless insults, hatred etc. thrown my way over the years for being a loyal ND fan. And like I said, I spend more money, time, and emotional investment in ND football than many ND alums I personally know.

  57. Looks like I’m wrong again. Clay Burton just bailed and will be going to Florida next year (with his brother). Florida hadn’t offered him yet and when they did, he bailed. No way to sugar coat that one, is there?

  58. Doc,

    Are you suggesting that we “subway alumni” wouldn’t endure the same? Try growing up Catholic and a vocal ND fan in the South in the 1970s as opposed to your occasional visits down here and see how that feels. You really don’t believe we haven’t endured insults of all kinds for Our Lady’s school? Wow! No wonder others find ND alums utterly self-righteous.

  59. teo,

    It seems to me there are 2 kinds of delusional ND fans. One group consists of those (old-timers) who believe that ND should be able to compete with the Alabamas today. That is indeed delusional. The other group of delusional fans are the ones who seems to think all is well at ND. That there are no real issues to address. That, too, is delusional.

    Frankly teo, I don’t know of many of us here in the first group. (I hope you’re not suggesting I’m in the group that believes ND is ready to compete with the elites.) I think that there are too many in the second group, however. These are the so-called leprechauns with their eternal pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. (With all due respects to Shaz, there’s no such things as leprechauns or pots of gold at the end of rainbows.)

    How is that some programs get back to the top relatively quickly, teo? Nebraska was a mess just a few years ago and now Bo Pellini has them playing at a top level (recall that they should’ve beat Texas last season). Alabama was down and out and Nick Saban turned them around in one season. Examples could be multiplied. I realize ND has built-in recruiting disadvantages versus Alabama, Nebraska, OSU, UF, etc. (Not that that’s stopped us from some top recruiting classes. What happens to these athletes once they get to S. Bend remains a mystery,however. How is it that they get slower, weaker, dumber, etc.) But we’ve been waiting for over 15 years now to turn things around, teo. That’s too damned long!

    1. Steel:

      I agree with you 100%. I think if you want to coach or play at ND you’re going to get criticism. Big time! If you can’t take it then go play at Purdue. Right now Notre Dame football is at a crossroads. I personally think we are not a division one team anymore.

      Like Steel says, when everyone comes to Notre Dame they get stupid,slower and forget how to play or coach.

      The team on the field now is a complete and utter disaster. There is absolutely NOTHING that happens on the field leads me to be optimistic.

      Maybe they will turn it around next year who knows but I believe there is something fundamentally flawed higher up.

      Thanks Steel, for saying what most of us want to say. Tell it like it is and let the chips fall.

      1. Jud,
        There are two types of criticism.
        There is constructive criticism, and the BS kind.
        I my self have been critical of the program “on occasion” over the years.
        But not being an alumni or someone like you and SFR who shell out thousands of dollars for season tickets, I just don’t find it in me to continuely berate the team.
        Now you guys are spending your hard earned dollars for a product that you feel is inferrior. That’s completely understandable. But a lot of us just want to enjoy ND football on our TV’s at home. We get to know these players, they are our guys. It’s like having one of your sons on the team. We give encouragement and support. Especially when times are tough. That’s what good supporters do. There is nothing wrong with that.
        I think that approch is much heathier and better than calling the players fat, dumb and stupid.

    2. SFR
      Interesting remarks about leprechauns. I would venture to say that you are 99.9% correct.
      But you are not 100% correct. That’s because you can’t PROVE IT.
      And when you can’t prove that something is true or isn’t true, then one can ony take what is said at face value. Like many of your views and opinions concerning ND football.
      You say ND can’t compete with Alabama. Since the two teams don’t play each other, you can’t prove it.
      Everyone said(I’m guessing yourself included) that Iowa St. couldn’t beat Texas.
      But they did.
      “All is well at ND” Delusional?
      The word “All” encompasses a wide range of ideals my friend
      We are 4-4. A 500 team. Certainly could do better, and should have done better.
      But we aren’t under investigation by the NCAA.
      None of our players are under suspension.
      There are no issues with agents here.
      There is no thuggery, cheating, or misconduct here.
      ND’s team GPA, and graduation rates are among the highest in the country. Doesn’t sound like fat, dumb, and stupid to me.
      Do you consider those items
      delusional? Or just insignificant?
      I’m not saying that you are right or wrong.
      I just saying that there is more than one side to every story. And that means that there is more than just your side.
      I think you exspect ND to be like the Pittsburg Steelers with Bradshaw, Harris, Swann, Joe Greene and the Steel curtian defense.
      Unfortunetly, that’s a delusion.
      In reality, They are a buch of 18,19, & 20 yr old student athelets who go to class full time while learning to play football in their spare time.
      Since I have never done anything that myself,and I’m not a season ticket holder, I don’t think that I am in any posisition to overly criticize anyone associated with the ND football program, or how they do business.

      1. Shazam, so it sounds like ND would be better off in the Ivy League, given ND’s wonderful GPA and graduation rates. If we’re supposed to be happy with mediocrity on the field and good academic performance, then fine, at least then we can focus on academic stats while dismissing pathetic performance on the field as the price of academic glory.

      2. Joe,

        Don’t ask me what it takes to make your sorry ass happy.

        God only knows, and I really don’t give a rat’s ass.

        You all are the experts.

        Why don’t you ask your buddy SFR. I’m sure he will tell you whatever you want.

        HEAR! HEAR!

    3. Very good points, SFR —

      The frustration mounts when we don’t see improvement. Now, Saban was just 7-5 in his first season at Alabama. But, in his second season, he brought the program to dominance.

      Kelly has a lot of work to do, for sure. It’s a very difficult environment but I think/hope he can do this. Defensively, we’re desperate for speed. I think Navy dominated because our defensive scheme didn’t match their offense and because their offense moved to our weaknesses (i.e. they played us the way that Michigan did; get outside).

      Now, offensively, I can’t understand the effort. A lot has been made of Crist this week. But, clearly, we had receivers that didn’t finish routes. And we had many dropped passes as well.

      Fundamentally, though, this team operates a slow and very conventional defense and that is killing us. Yes, we’re tackling better but we need speed. We need a group of fast freshmen next year who can grow on the line and in the secondary. After watching the game, literally I wanted a replacement for everyone besides Teo. That’s frustrating.

  60. frank,

    what about a ghost-writer to provide some opinions about each game? it would be nice to have a fresh board each week instead of sifting through a million comments. just a thought. or even a post with the score and let everyone hash out their sentiments…

  61. does anyone else get the feeling that kelly has never been sold on Crist? You get the feeling he wants to distance himself from anything that would reflect positive on Weise. he made early negaitive remarks about Teo and Floyd, too. Those guys (and Kyle/TE) may be gone next year anyway. If that his way, man up and just cut them all?

    And, why is Kelly such a quitter ? ten minutes to go in 4th and he pulls the starting QB. if it was for motivation, WHY NOT TRY AN ONSIDE KICK? TRY ANYTHING POSITIVE? TWO POINT CONVERSION?

  62. We haven’t had a coaching change like this one in a long time. That is, Weis won right away. So did Willingham. Both were viewed, largely, as very bright and superior head coaches. This was why, folks believed, the Irish won so many of the close games at the start of both men’s ND head coaching tenure.

    On comes Brian Kelly, who inherits a team and a fan base that seems to believe that they’re capable of beating Alabama today. yet, Kelly also took over a program with big keys missing on offense. The program had some major defensive difficulties, too.

    We’re more than half-way through the season and we put up an effort like the kids put up against UConn last season. It was simply weak by any measure. Am I being a “negative naysayer” for stating the obvious? Are the others here? We’re all struggling through the season. But what we want, I think, is to believe the kids are giving it their best effort and are improving week to week. Maybe they are and maybe Navy’s scheme is just better than ours (God knows, while Navy has some decent football players, they’re not the size and quickness and strength of ours). Maybe we can only get within three touchdowns of Navy.

    My sense is that Navy played harder, blocked better and tackled more effectively. Receivers dropped passes and didn’t finish routes. Linemen were pushed around by smaller players and linebackers and safeties did a poor job of tackling. I’m not calling for Kelly’s head, at all. But the kids better wake up. This program’s hungry for wins. For sure, Navy should not have embarrassed us.

  63. C-Dog,

    The only kids playing their “hearts out” were the Navy boys. Do you really believe that the ND players played with their “hearts out” on Sat.? Really??? What game were you watching? As far as coaches trying to figure things out on Sat., you surely can’t be speaking about BK and his staff. By his own admission, if you read his post-game conference transcript, he and his staff didn’t do a good job of figuring anything out. That damned Navy BACKUP FB is still running over our D 2 days later! What exactly has BK and his staff figured out this season? How to go 4-4? How to make DC a more consistent QB? How to make the D dominant?

    Yes, C-Dog, there are positives. Like someone else pointed out we still have the top punt coverage unit in the nation! Seriously, I think we can all agree that ND has improved in some areas. However, to say that these improvements are anywhere near or good enough to make us even remotely competitive with the elite teams is truly delusional. If you accept mediocrity, then perhaps you’re satisfied with the so-called improvements we’ve seen from CW to BK.

  64. For the record:

    No one is a rotten person for being optimistic. One is a rotten person, however, for calling others disloyal to ND for simply asking serious questions and making valid criticisms. One is a rotten person, however, by calling other people negative when in fact they are merely being critical (a distinction too many people here seem not to be able to make). One is a rotten person, however, by putting words in other people’s mouths instead of addressing the real arguments being made. One is a rotten person, however, by suggesting that those of us who didn’t attend ND are subhumans who shouldn’t be allowed to root for ND football and somehow have to justify why we cheer for “Ol’, ol’ Notre Dame.” One is a rotten person, however, who wishes another person ill, like being laid off from work. One is a rotten person, however, by bragging about where they went to school, what they do for a living, how much money they make, etc. (when no one else gives a shit!).

    I love the self-righteousness of some here. We don’t call people names. Sure! As if calling someone a “naysayer” or “negative” were a compliment or something. You guys don’t like the “leprechaun” references about yourselves (perhaps lemmings would be more appropriate) yet have no problems calling out and insulting anyone who disagrees with you by saying that they are naysayers or negative. What a ton of hypocritical, self-righteous BS!

    As I said in my last posts, I’m perfectly willing to live and let live. I understand that we all can’t just get along. I also realize that not all of us see things the same way. But if you don’t like being called leprechauns or delusional then don’t insult the intelligence of the rest of us here who are rightly critical of what we see as wrong with this team.


    1. I for one like the leprechaun.
      His legacy is steeped in rich tradition that goes back ceturies. Now some may think that I am delusional for associating myself with the little fellow. I guess like most things in life, it’s a matter of faith. While I can’t prove that he actually exsists, even though much has been said and written about him. He also can’t be misproven. Sure there are arguements on both sides. Varing views and differences of opinions.
      Now if you happen to be 3’4″, dress in green, carry a stick, talk with a irish accent, and have a crock of gold hidden away, you probably are a leprechaun.
      Now If you only take a negitive perspective on all things ND football, you probably are a neysayer. It only stands to reason.
      But that’s just me. Delusional Shaz. It’s ok. There are worst things in life than being a bit delusional from time to time.

      1. Shaz,

        Your humor and penchant for self-deprecation is always most welcome!

        Having said that, for me and I’m sure for many others ND football is no laughing matter (regardless of how laughable the team looks right now). We have serious problems. I’m all for addressing them seriously, with all due respects to all opinions. Calling someone a “naysayer” for being rightly critical of this or that aspect of ND football is no laughing matter and disrespectful.

        Don’t like being called delusional, then don’t call people naysayers. People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

      2. SFR,

        When it comes to ND football I offten lead with my heart and not my brain. I’ll be the first to admit it. I have been delusional from time to time this year. But if a person is what they are, then sometimes the truth hurts. But then there is no shame in changing ones perception.
        ps.. I don’t live in a glass house, it’s more of a love shack kinda thing.

      3. I, too, am a fan of leprechauns. Probably our most life-like leprachaun was Patrick Murphy (’76) who found his pot of gold later as a dentist. Then Joe Cosgrove did a three-year stint as leprachaun and is most famous for shaking his shilleglagh at Dave Corzine (DePaul came in undeated, left with a loss)after he kicked a radio controlled car across the floor of the ACC.

        Notre Dame graduates spend a lot of time defending the school much like we would our mothers (which is what the name means). We argue with her at times, but if anyone else says anything bad about her, off come the gloves.

      4. Doc,

        I understand. But are you, like C-Dog, applying some kind of ND-degree litmus test for the rest of us subhumans to be able to root for ND football?

        Need I remind the proud ND grads here that the “subway alumni” are a part of ND football lore? That we “subway alumni” are what made ND football what it is (or, perhaps, what it was). We’re not “anyone else,” Doc. I resent the inference. We’re as much — if not greater — fans than ND alums. Don’t lump us in with Angry Eagle. Those are fighting words indeed!

      5. I grew up on a dairy farm in Iowa, my dad never got past the 6th grade and I have been pelted by fish and potatoes on the side lines from fans in the deep south while on the Notre Dame sidelines.

        Does that make me better than someone who didn’t go to school at Notre Dame? No.

        Does it get me angry when people bash the school? Yes.

        Would I take the fish and potatoes barrage again for Our Lady? Any day.

  65. I’ve never been accused of been a rotten guy for being optimistic. I’m not goign to shake my fist at God everytime something bad happens to me and I’m sure not going to spit and fume at the mouth while I sit in front of my TV or near a radio on Saturday. I’ll get dissapointed sure, but crap all over a bunch of kids playing their hearts out, or the coaches trying to get it right. I’ll point out errors, but I’m not going to crap on them. And I’m certainly not going to crap on fans trying to be positive. Why be a fan if optimism is equated with evil? Optimism is good. I can be a pessimist at work when dealing with the monday thru friday frustrations, just like Shaz.

    Seems like Frank isn’t doing this for a while. And it seems the negative naysayers who like playing it safe by calling everyone else names and being negative have taken over.

    Maybe next year. I’ll watch the Irish and remember Shaz, Bleed, Ted, Irisheye, and you more positive critics. See ya.

    1. C-Dog,

      You bring a view point that is appreciated by more than you think.
      I’ve always enjoyed your level headed and down to earth points of view.
      It helps me remember who I am, where I’m from, and what IS truely important.
      The naysayers haven’t taken over. They just use this platform to feed their own means.

      “May the road rise to meet you my friend
      May the wind be always at your back
      May the sun shine warm upon your face
      May the rain fall soft upon your fields
      And until we meet agian, may God hold you in the palm of his hand”

      1. C-Dog: “crap all over a bunch of kids playing their hearts out”

        Me: Are you SERIOUSLY saying that ND’s players were playing their hearts out?! SERIOUSLY? They were done midway through the first qtr! Pretty much every major media outlet on earth is talking about how ND, its coaches and players, never showed up and then GAVE UP in very short order. THAT is why we are so angry.

        And those coaches, and “kids”, deserved to get booed out of the stadium. Not booed for losing, booed for apparently not giving a shit.

  66. Shaz – missed you over the weekend. Your humor usually settles down this throng.

    Robert Hughes was on the field for one play – as a decoy for the quarterback sneak that didn’t work. Hindsight is always great, but I’d have sent him as a 245 pound missle going over the top of the submarined linemen and see if one of their 195 pound linebackers could stop him in mid air. All-in-all, poor decisions on the field by a number of players and the team just wasn’t even thinking about playing a football game.

    As far an earlier comment goes on losing some of our 2011 recruits, quite frankly, if I am on the defensive side of the ball, I would be thinking I could start all four years if I went to Notre Dame, so I don’t see any defections there. I don’t believe we lost Prestwood on the OL because we were losing games – there’s something else going on there that none of know about and he might still show up. He was an early commit and was missing out on all the parties his counterparts are now attending. (Hendrix did a little shopping himself last December.)

    Crist’s first drive actually looked pretty good from a decision making stand point. Once we got behind, he started throwing into coverage when he should have been tucking the ball and running – he has a set of wheels and they were dropping at least 7 at times.

    Could have been worse – could have been in Austin and had Iowa State come in and beat you in your own house. I can’t imagine the number of “For Sale” signs stuck in Mack’s lawn right now.

    1. Whats up Doc,

      I’m a Monday thru Friday guy.
      I spend those days out of town working. When I get home Friday afternoon, I devote my weekend time to my family. Oh, I take time to watch the lads play, for sure. But I want to enjoy my time at home as well. I pull for my team and try to make the best of it. Last year’s loss to Navy really pissed me off. Yeah, it can be frustrating, sometimes even demoralizing. But getting mad served no good poupose for me. It’s not like anything I say or do is going to have any influence on the out come of the game.
      So I figure that if I can’t control it, I might as well support it.
      I learned that these are 18, 19, and 20yr. old kids. They are not professionals.
      What goes through the mind of today’s 18 yr old?
      All you can do is pull for your team, back them up, and hope for good things. Try to find something positive that you can look to, and build on.
      Lou Holtz once said that when you are winning, you are not as good as you think you are. And when you are losing, your not as bad as you thing you are.
      I think those words have never been more true than with this year’s team.
      As far as Mack Brown goes…
      This ain’t his first rodeo. He’ll get back in the saddle and bring Texas back. At Florida, Urban Meyer will do the same… as will Brian Kelly at ND.
      One day, ND will be back on top. Those that kept the faith will be reconized, as will those who didn’t.

  67. Okay, that was an embarrassment. Fortunately, I did not get to watch the game. Now, I hope that the kids who are running around talking to the press about their three-game winning streak and how they’re going to go 9-3 can shut the f(*& up. Navy is a good team. It sounds like we made them look like a pro team. But, Navy is a decent team.

    For Kelly, this season is one to sort things out. Anyone suggesting that he should be fired is insane at this point. However, getting blown out by Navy isn’t a good sign that he’s sorting things out. Hopefully, some kids get healthy and some other kids step up and we finish the season with some pride and a bowl victory.

    I don’t understand what Notre Dame does to football players. It seems that we have plenty of talent if you look at what the recruiting sites say about various recruiting classes. At the same time, the kids seem eager to play with less intensity as the season progresses. Excellence? On the football field right now, it looks like the worst combination: talented kids who perform far below their ability. It resembles the student who scores in the 97th percentile on their SAT who gets D’s and F’s. As a fan, this is disheartening.

  68. Thankfully, the football gods showed pitty on me this week.
    The game(if you want to call it that) was not televised by NBC. Because I live in the souheast, ESPN provided only regional coverage.
    I got Virgina Tech – Duke, and Michigan St.-Northwestern.
    Very nice come back by State. Down by 17, they didn’t give up or panic.
    Wish I could same the same about us. Sadly, not being able to watch this game was the best thing to happen to me this weekend.
    My dad(God rest his soul) and I, sat side by side each Saturday in 1988 watching our beloved ND win a national championship. Those were the best of times. In the 20 years that followed, ND never reached that pinnicale agian. He passed away in Dec. 2007. In his final few years, it was his wish that we might be able to once agian share in the enjoyment of a ND National Championship season together. A magical season. It never happen.
    Now I wounder if my son and I will suffer the same fate.
    I have always kept the faith. Always supported the boys, good or bad.
    As ND fans, we have been humbled. We have paid our dues. We deserve better!

    I hear Ian Williams suffered a knee injury. I didn’t see the play or how it happened, but I have a pretty good guess. Does anyone know if this was a result of a cut block?

    1. I had DVR’d the game and had rewinded the play over and over but could not make out how he was injured. Like you, my first thought was that he fell victim to a cut block.

      1. E,

        Never been to the south have you?
        It’s a whole different world down here.
        To broadcast the game down here at 10am means
        replacing “Huntin Cooters with uncle Clem” and episodes 4,5,&6 of “Swamp people” with ND footbaw. There is no dadgum way they are giving up cooter and gator huntin for yankee footbaw!

  69. Ah…….it’s America! You have the right to shoot yourself in the foot! Sure hope we win next week and get past this emotional tsunami. Breathing is good guys! Go Irish!


    (Real Fact: Comments this week won’t cancel BK’s contract!)

  70. does anyone think notre dame was in a bad defense yesterday to try and stop the option. it seemed like the inside linebackers were trying to take the pitch man. crist may have a lot of talent but he may be in a bad offense for him. he may not be mobile enough to be really effective in this offense. he doesn’t throw real well on the run either. also seems to throw into double coverage, for some reason he doesn’t seem to see the safties coming over to pick up what looks like an open reciever.

    1. I agree Crist does not look like he fits into this offense
      Hw should look more comfortable than he does by now – He was the only option BK had at the beginning of the year though – next year maybe Rees will be the QB – pieces aren’t fitting together yet – still not an Allen backer – need a running back

      1. tommy and cousin,
        You have echoed some of my thoughts. We are 8 games into the season now and Crist is still all over the map. He looks scared, confused and just plain sucks. It is a complete crapshoot what you’re going to get with him. He throws into coverage alot.

  71. i would rather lose games now, even embarrassing losses, than lose them for the next 20 years, again. instant success under weis and willingham was a great sign of future propsperity!

    don’t get me wrong, the criticism is warranted. that was an ugly game. i agree that it is hard to see improvement week in week out.

    crist has all the talent in the world, but just doesn’t have a clue. some guys never get it, and maybe crist won’t.

    i thought the defense was improving and playing better than they did last year, until last week. i don’t know what happened, i’m not a college or nfl coach, but we were clearly outschemed. i don’t know the proper technique against the chop block, but i kept seeing our linebackers and secondary going around and trying to shed blocks, just to see the fullback run right by. they must have been practicing this last week. no excuse for such a poor showing on defense.

    but to honestly call for kelly’s head already is simply stupid. or even diaco’s, you have to see the insanity of changing d-coordinators every year, right?

    i have no problem criticizing and lampooning the team’s play, the system, etc. but kelly has already been hired as the head coach of this football team.

    1. agree too soon to call for BK’s head – it may show what little CW really left him to work with -it will take time to biuld the mental attitude that is needed. Give them some time

    2. 1.) Defensively, we’re slow. Teo has a lot of speed but no one else has that speed. So, a team that can get to the outside or make us think they’re going outside will do well.
      2.) Crist does look confused quite a bit. I’m not sure what the deal is but he’s a nice guy who is just not a quarterback in this system.
      3.) Best bet: hope that this team can turn it around by season’s end by using an offensive scheme that can put up points.





    THINKING WE should remain in the past ( AND THAT BECAUSE WE ARE nd )


    AS FOR YOU BILL MEEHan, nd fan and JUD-

    pride ( there iT GOES AGAIN)
    and could be
    meanwhile i will fix the comPUTER KEYS

      1. ha ha ha,

        I can’t believe I’m about to offer this.

        You’re suffering from “Sticky Keys”.

        no, I’m not making a masturbation joke. It’s what microsoft does to people who hold the shift key in excess of 5 seconds.

        I laugh because my father has the same technical difficulties operating the computer.

        Here’s a hint: if you’re having a problem, type your problem into google. Try to keep it under 7 words. You’ll probably find a bunch of other people with the same problem. You’ll also probably find the solution. That way you won’t have to call up your 22 year old son and shout at him that he did this and he needs to come over and fix it right now.

        another free hint: Don’t google “Sticky Keys” instead try “Shift stuck”

        final hint: I said google. Not Yahoo answers, or bing, or AOL search, or Ask Jeeves. Google.

      2. Meehan,

        WOW,I used to think that guy that did the Dos Equis beer commercials, was the most interesting man in the world.
        But man, you got it covered!
        From Cow tipping, to horsing around with the Tennessee Stud, to solutions for “sticky Keys” (although I would think if you kept the horse play in the barn and away from the computer, you wouldn’t have that sticky key problem to begin with)
        Does your 22 year old son say he’s coming over to fix your computer, then drink all your beer too?
        My computer had sticky key’s once. My son spilt beer on it and said that’s how you fix it. There was no mention of google.
        Also, my chevy had “shift stuck”, one time… beer fixed that too!
        Any advice for “hammer toes”?
        (besides beer. I Tried it. Didn’t work. Just wasted good beer) To hell with Ask Jeeves, I’ll just ask Bill!

      3. Bill,

        Since it’s clear that I owe you one in the advice column, I can help you with that bleeding eye condition.
        1. Stop looking at bikini pictures of Hillery Clinton and Nancy Pelosi on the internet.
        2. Be sure to drink plenty of beer

      4. Thanks Bill –
        Your words give you away.
        Way to go.
        Nancy Pelosi? No thanks.
        New computer keyboard, you bet. JDH attempt at being clever? Hardly. More like resembling Patrick Star on Spongebob.
        And they told me ND fans united. Hmm. Not so much.
        Good night, boys. ( and I do mean boys)

        As for those who hate this loss, that is natural.
        As for dumping ND, don’t come back on the bandwagon when things finally do come back.
        ( Whenever that is)

      5. I don’t get it.

        I sincerely don’t get the Pelosi comment. Was that directed at me?

        BTW, I’m glad you were able to find the caps-lock key. Thank you.

        That’s all I was ever really after.

      6. @Irisheye62:

        “JDH attempt at being clever? Hardly. More like resembling Patrick Star on Spongebob.”

        Again, like so many others on this board, I have no idea what you are talking about. My prior post @ you was simply asking you what you were talking about. Because you apparently can’t better articulate what you are talking about, you use sarcasm and reference a child’s TV show.

        Well done. I’ll go back now to playing with my fellow “boys” on this site and leave you, the big man, alone.

  73. bleednd82,

    If you read my latest posts, I’m saying the same thing. Not can’t we all get along. That would be unrealistic. But can’t we at least respect each other’s opinions and realize we all analyze things differently. Some are eternal optimists. Some are eternal pessimists. Some are eternal realists.

    Frankly, I just got sick and tired of being labeled something I’m not by the eternal optimists, or leprechauns as I fondly refer to them. For them any criticism is an act of treason against ND. No! Treason is accepting mediocrity. That’s treasonable indeed. Notice that Jud, JDH, and myself continue to support this team, even after over a decade of gutwrenching defeats and crap play.

    When C-Dog said I should join up with Angry Eagle, that was it. The gloves were off. It’s one thing to make a jackass of yourself by constantly getting predictions wrong, giving us your career and life accomplishments (no body gives a shit, C-Dog!), and settling for mediocrity, but to compare any of us here BC fans, well, those are just fightin’ words! However, upon further reflection, I’ve come to realize that those like C-Dog have their role (beyond the occasional comic relief). The leprechauns keep the rest of us honest by making some good points now and again.

  74. This is sad guys. My experience on these boards is like my experience at the games with the old folks who yell at me to sit down. WE ROOT FOR THE SAME TEAM! Period! Doesn’t matter how we “cheer” or “support” our team just as long as we are doing it. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. The problem is when someone tries to force their opinion on others (or tell the usher on you for standing).

    This is my opinion about old school ND fans and by old I mean in age. They feel ND should win the National Title every year. They feel entitled to it for some odd reason. The days are over when ND dominated every year. There is just too much parity in college football (Example: Urban Meyer at Florida). They place high standards on the coach that are simply too high to meet.

    I don’t mind their attitude but its when they try to tell me how to cheer and try to push their opinions on me I have a problem. They are old, cranky, and entitled people who see things only their way. Personally, I think they are bandwagon fans. When things are good they brag, but when things are bad they don’t support the team. They just rip the team.

  75. STEEL FAN:


    ( I’m 1/4 indian and have learned much of ND’s past with Indian people–many of whom are Catholic today. Leopold Pokagon’s descendants are friends of mine -he was the Chief who was Catholic and argued for his people to stay in the South Bend area.)

    as for JDH







    YOU BET IT WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!





    1. Oh dear god, my eyes are bleeding.

      It’s a mere 7/16 of an inch, that’s how far you have to move your left pinkey to not read like a raving lunatic.

      It’s right there, it’s the caps lock key, press it. Then start thinking out what you have to say.

      Remember: Proper capitalization is the difference between “I need to help my Uncle Jack off a horse” and ” I NEED TO HELP MY UNCLE JACK OFF A HORSE”.

      1. BILL ;
        shouldn’t you be more concerned with YOUR HORSE than a Cap LOCK key?


      I don’t have any idea why you are telling me this. No disrespect intended, but what’s your point? I never commented on ND’s history, traditions, or academic status. I don’t understand what your comments have to do with anything I’ve written.

  76. Now that all my fellow leprachauns are back from church, let’s look at the positives from yesterday’s game:

    1. As mentioned earlier – it was not on NBC (or ABC) so it was a pleasure listening to someone who could actually announce a football game. (If you call that a football game – looked more like lambs being led to slaughter.) I have to admit I didn’t have a great feeling about this game, so I DVR’d the game and watched it without commercials and fast forwarded through most of the second half, so I only wasted an hour of my life watching the second worst game of all time (Syracuse 2008 still wins the prize for worst.)

    2. Looks like our endowment is safe as no one is harping about offering this particular staff a 10-year contract . . . . at least at this time. There may be plenty of room on the bandwagon for the future, but there are a plethera of empty seats right now.

    3. Punt coverage team is still #1 in the land. We accomplished that by just throwing the ball to the opposition in crucial situations instead of waiting to punt on fourth down.

    4. Rees had a chance to redeem himself.

    5. Ruffer hit another field goal to keep his streak going, so good for him.

    Turning point of the game:

    1. 4th and inches on the first drive. Everyone in North America knew we were going to run a quarterback sneak, just like everyone in North America knew Wisconsin was going to run John Clay at Iowa in a similar situation on Saturday. Iowa (much like Notre Dame) said “go ahead – not in my house” and got run over. Navy decided to submarine our huge linemen and let their big butts fly up in the sky so there’d be no room for Crist to sneak by. Coaching and intelligence versus cluelessness and arrogance. (We have an almost 250 pound running back ourselves, but we decided to not give the ball to him on this play.)

    2. Or it could have been when the Navy team sprinkled sand from Iwo Jima and Iraq on the field – one team came to win and the other team came to get beat.

      1. Thanks tips, but if you heard the play-by-play guy saturday, he was “Rufner”… I know its Ruffer

      2. My bad Evan- didn’t hear this mispronunciation on Saturday.
        My smartass comment is retracted, although I didn’t mean anything by it the first time around. 🙂

      3. Okay Evan, aside from butchering our players’ names (and saying the wrong names as well at times because they are unfamilair with the rosters) as least they sounded like they’d announced football games before (and didn’t look like they were the guest of honor at a wake). I also like the way Bob Davie pronounces “footbaw”.

  77. Jud, JDH, Power, Patrick:

    Let’s take it easy on those like C-Dog on this board. They have a right to their opinions, even if they’d like to play the “I graduated from ND,” holier-than-thou, moral trump card and deny us our thoughts. Like I said, an ND degree doesn’t mean you know everything (in some cases, it actually seems to suggest that an ND degree means you know nothing).

    C-Dog: We may not have all the answers. You’re right about that. But unlike you, we ask some of the right questions. We’re entitled to that as life-long ND fans, however we became ND fans (and you’re in no position to judge that for us!) I also know that you don’t have all the right answers either. (In fact, you elect not to ask answers at all and just make lame predictions about how ND is going to beat everybody.)

    I was a first-generation Catholic immigrant to the US. That alone should explain why my decision to follow the Irish wasn’t random, C-Dog. No, I didn’t go to ND. But despite having to learn a new language and a new culture, I’ve done OK academically (including graduating from a prestigious liberal arts college and obtaining a few graduate degrees). So excuse me, sir, if I’m not overly impressed by your academic grandstanding.

    Unlike you, C-Dog, I learned to love the Irish all on my own. I appreciate your grandad’s efforts to inculcate a love for ND football. I trust you’ve passed that on to your children. But don’t denigrate me or my self-acquired love for the Irish.

    You know, it’s people like C-Dog that makes ND hated. They’re arrogant, live in the past, and don’t want to see things for what they are. They blaspheme Our Lady’s name among the heathens, who in turn love it when ND suffers.

    I’m moving on from C-Dog. (I won’t be reading his responses to me lest we get caught up in an endless debate.) I wish him and his family much success (despite him saying that I should be laid off from my job, not a nice joke these days!). I just hope he stops making a fool of himself and us with his lame predictions and unfounded optimism. The rest of us will continue to root for the irish, even if we’re justifiably critical of them.


    1. Just remember you began the insults. I’m Irish too and I’m not going to take it lying down. Not even on the Internet. Now you are trying to be holier than though after calling me names just for wanting to believe.

      Looks like frank may have given up. Shazam, Bleednd82, and afew of the other guys who do have critical but positive comments might be giving up too. I’d rather be wrong a few times while holding some optimism than wasting my time flaming the players, coaches, and other fans of a team that exists for the glory of a school.
      There’s no doubt that we’re all frustrated. The magic that Holtz gave those of us that were there taught even fans life long lessons. Unfotunately “the brand” concept has people looking at ND as just another team. If that is what they are then I don’t understand why someone would be a fan.
      I’m interested to hear what people know specifically about what Catholics and Irish have had to overcome. Beyond football why do you root for Notre Dame?

    2. I agree but I never said one thing about C-Dog. I just asked him about his comment: “Why don’t you go root for Pitt or some other college team of criminals etc.” (I’m paraphrasing). I asked him what that even meant. Why would I/you etc. feel the need to go root for another team? Makes no sense whatsoever.

    3. To add: I must agree that it doesn’t necessarily mean jackshit that someone went to ND. I know tons of ND grads, several in my own family. I’m 10x the fan than alot of them are. Having a piece of paper from the university adds absolutely no more credentials to one’s opinion.

  78. Another quick little note but GEORGIA SOUTHERN AND SMU COMBINED HELD NAVY TO LESS RUSHING YARDS THAn ND DID. no big deal but our d is worse than georgia southerns

  79. Ok guys here are a bit of numbers for you. If you want to say I’m making excuses go for it. The great Lou Holtz went 5-6 his first year at ND. Kelly may turn out to be the opposite of Holtz, but I’m not giving up on him yet. Right now he’s what? 4-4? Even right? what was Weis’ record at the end of his first season? 9-3. What about Willingham? 10-3. Even if Kelly cannot win out we at least have our doubts about him in his first season. I really doubt that the university is going to offer him a five year extension after this year. What I’m trying to say is at least we know that he’s not a false prophet after season one, instead of thinking that Willingham was the second coming of Rockne or that Weis was the next Parseghian. I think that Kelly has made some damn gutsy calls and paid the price for them. But I can’t judge him from one season, especially after what he inherited. I just hope that next year at this time the website won’t have already given up on the team. Sorry about my jumbled thoughts. I’m going to go nap now.

  80. What i still cant understand is the personnel kelly puts on the field. If navy is so small and fast, then the pretty obvious thing would be to put in big, powerful guys to counter that. why put in armando and cierre when that plays to navys strengths. Put in jonas and hughes who would just pound over the smaller defenders. put in small revivers, put in duval, deion walker and goodman (floyd if hes not hurt), because those receivers each would have a 4 in advantage on the much smaller DBs. On defense put in the monsters to plug there run like louis nix and tyler stockton who are each 350+. How would navy’s OL block those guys? Navy doesn’t pass so put in a extra DL or LB to stop the run. winning games is not about putting the best players on the field, but rather the players that best fit the mold for that certain game. ND football is dying. THere future is bleak. in 2012 they play BYU, Oklahoma, Miami (fl), usc, stanford, navy, MSU, Michigan, pitt, BC, Wake. Tell me how thats not going to be another 3-9 season? Kelly was overrated as a coach. He won in the Big East, which is a conference where with my dog coaching, any team can do well. And Yipie Nd has another good recruiting class, but realistically the coaches wont develop them and they wont be good. I know i am the minority here, but i believed weis should have gotten one more season b/c Clausen and Tate would have stayed, recruits like Blake Leuders (whose starting at Stanford) and Chris Martin (transfered to UF) would have also stayed and made an impact this year. With those guys on the team, a BCS game would have been in our sights. I only feel bad for Manti because he is a man amongst girls on that D , and the players who are not being given a chance to play, (I.E. Prince Shembo, Deion Walker, Hughes, Jonas, Lo Wood)
    Same ol story all over again, hyped up coach doesnt do the job and ND is left again in turmoil

  81. All of you guys have no patience. I understand we have talent, but the system takes time. We will not be good until we get a defensive line and our quarterback develops. Im not saying Brian Kelly is the man, and personally i wanted a defensive minded head coach because i dont really see much of a difference between kelly and weis but thats a different conversation.

    All im saying is give the guy a chance. Were 8 games through and were talking about firing the guy already. It’s ridiculous.

    1. We’ve been patient for 20 years. Sorry I over react but 20 years is a long time and remember it’s not so much about wins and losses but we’re not COMPETEING.

      How much time does a head coach need for a team just to COMPETE and not QUIT!

      1. Exactly. NO PATIENCE? C’mon. Let’s do a logic experiment. At what point is it ok for fans’ patience to run out? 10 years? 20? 30? How bad does the program have to get?

        I never advocated for BK to go. That would be ridiculous. Of course he deserves more time. My point, ad nauseum, is that I am truly afraid that there are pervasive, fundamental problems at this university. The braintrust may very well be braindead, as evidenced by the past 18 years +. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe not.

      2. JDH:

        I think you’re right. It seems there are some pervasive,fundamental problems. For the past 20 years there is just something wrong and it’s not X’s and O’s this is not a division 1 school anymore in football. It just seems like the whole football world is passing us by. I could be wrong but it sure seems that way.

  82. Steelfanrob,

    Ok you’ve had your fun with c-dog and we all pretty much agree with you that his points were just a bit pompus. Give the guy a break now. he hasn’t replied back and this is just a forum to express our views. You definately have some valid points on the state of ND football. now that I think back I’ve had an excuse for pretty much every bad season the last ten years(with the exception of everyone quitting on us last year). It’s extremely sad but true. Thanks for opening my eyes…

  83. I would like to pose a question to everyone. We’ve played eight games this year so far. How much improvement have you seen since week one? Depressing isn’t it? Think about it. Qb, running back, offensive line, receivers get a break because of injuries. Defensive line, linbackers, secondary. Improvement anywhere?

    We won’t talk about wins and losses but BK is not getting through or something. He’s terrible. Again, we can sit here and say oh golly gee it’s his first year and oh golly gee new quarterback and oh golly gee a new system, what a bunch of crap!

    Have we improved? I don’t want to hear how we tackle better. Of course when we’re chasing the opponet all over the field we have to tackle sooner or later but where have we improved?

    Sorry to say this folks but BK is not the answer and the sooner we cut our losses the better. Wait, did the administration give him 200 million too like they did CW? Oh well, here we go again.

    In my opinion BK has to go and the sooner the better!

    1. If BK is fired after this season (which will never happen unless it’s suddenly revealed he’s really a woman named Briana Kelly), then ND might as well drop to DIII and open with the University of Chicago next season. Yes, it was embarassing but the best thing for ND now is some stability. Only 8 games in is no time to judge the coach.

  84. Oh i know coach kelly runs the spread but it would be nice to see a goalline package with two tightends with crist under centre with hughes at fb and maybe gray at tb power ball down there would be cool to see but i know we run the spread and coach kelly does not do that just want to see them do well when the get down there between the 20s they seem to move it at will the odd time but when they get in the redzone they seem to really strugle alot thats all

  85. Yesterday was as bad as it gets i have never seen a team from ND QUIT!!!! like that it was horrible I am not putting it all on the coaches but the effort from that team was a joke looking at them on the sideline after every series was disturbing to say the least I wish we could have put Navys heart passion and determanation into some of the NDs players bodies things just got worsre seeing Ian Williams and Carlo Calabrese getting hurt on the same play they just beat the living shit out of ND yesterday it was brutal this season has sure been up and down like crazy what has this senior class done the last 4 yrs lost 3 of to navy its tough still waiting to see a complete game prob wont be this year they still have a chance at maybe a 500 year and considering how the have played at times that would be at least a little something never thought i would say this but have to question some of those players hearts and if they really care i hope they do but lets see it then hope they can go at least 6-6 anything better would encourging any less would be dishearting this canadian irish fan hasnt given up yet hope for a lot better this weekend from the boys and coaches enjoy reading alot of your msgs people keep it up good or bad

  86. Ted and Cav,

    You’re not apologists. You both make good points and don’t accuse those who disagree with you of being disloyal to ND like some others do.

    Ted, totally agree about Navy. And that’s the issue. What you say about Navy today used to be said about the great ND teams of the past. So where did we go wrong? When? Cav, nobody is suggesting firing BK. I’m certainly not. (Please, C-Dog, don’t put words in my mouth and say that I’m calling for BK’s head!) But this culture of losing is becoming endemic. It in fact started under Lou. While he didn’t lose a lot of games late in his ND coaching stint, he lost a lot of key games that cost us perhaps 2 more titles. That means this culture of defeat is well over 20 years old.

    At this point, if we win out and go 8-4 or even 7-5 AND beat USC, then it will be a successful season IF we also win a bowl game. Finishing the season on a 5 game winning streak would definitely be a sign of hope.

    Can I please urge that no one question the ND loyalties of anyone on this site? I only call some people leprechauns because I got tired of being called disloyal for calling things like I see them. I decided to fight fire with fire. But in reality I can live with someone who wants to only look at the positives so long as they return the favor and appreciate what some of the rest of us bring to the table with our critical (not the same thing as negative, C-Dog) observations. I’m sure all of us want the same thing, namely, seeing ND football back on top.


  87. Not in my book with how many games they left on the table min. 8-4 for first yr i predicted 9-3 preseason b/c i thought kelly was a better coach

  88. I know that this is a stretch, but I’ll throw it out there anyway.

    If ND beats Tulsa and Army and wins against EITHER Utah or USC to finish at 7-5, is this a successful year for a 1st year head coach with a new QB?

    1. If ND beats Tulsa and Army and beats either Utah or USC to finish at 7-5 I would say this season would be acceptable. Certainly not successful. My god how far we’ve fallen. SUCCESSFUL! Are you kidding me. Successful is when you win the Super Bowl or World Series.

      Acceptance of mediocrity. That’s where we are I guess. This is really sad!

  89. To All ND Fans:

    According to C-Dog, we must now have somekind of ND ID card to be real fans or have graduated from ND herself. Yet, he claims not to be arrogant. Wow!

    Are you serious?! Who are you to question why any of us are ND fans? I’ve been an ND fan long before the late 1980s, my friend. I didn’t need to grow up in S. Bend or have my grandfather tell me about ND lore. I learned it all on my own as a first generation immigrant to this great country. Immigrant. You know? Like the people who first ND what she was. Her loyal sons went well beyond S. Bend. Of course, you’d know that if you were a real ND fan, you arrogant tool.

    No one made you the conscience of ND football, C-Dog. Thank God for that! I for one want nothing to do with the likes of you, ND supporter or not. You’re an embarrassment to ND. Stick to drinking the Kool Aid and living in the past, fossil.

  90. C-Dog,

    If you’re an ND product, then frankly my opinion of the university as an institution of higher learning just went down the toilet. Once again, you failed to address a single on of my substantive issues concerning ND football. Frankly, sir, you’re an embarassment to ND, not only for your lack of honesty (i.e., putting words and thoughts in other people’s mouths) and integrity (i.e., not addressing the issues at hand)but especially for your acceptance of mediocrity and absolute disregard for wanting the best for the institution you claim to honor. Also, if you knew half as much as you claim to know about the traditions of ND football, C-Dog, then you’d know that the “subway alumni” are a great part of the history of ND. So take your arrogant ND degree and shove it! (Apparently, an ND degree is no gurantee that someone will be able to make a coegent argument and be above ad hominem polemics.) Many of us here didn’t attend ND but love her (and want to see her succeed) more than you do. I’ll put my love and loyalty for ND against yours anytime of the day, week, month, or year!

    Unless you want to seriously address the pros and cons of ND football, sir, I’ll gladly remove the dust from my sandles and move on to dialog with those on this board with honor and integrity, leaving you to gaze on the ND degree on your wall and to relive what ND football was. I’ll discuss instead with those who want to see ND great again.

    ndforever, the spread is a gimmicky offense whether or not some teams have success running it. I won’t reitetate the excellent points made above by Power run the ball. Case closed, sir. Nonetheless, I appreciate the fact that you want to discuss ND football instead of posturing and engaging in red herring and strawman arguments, like the alleged ND grad, C-Dog(I say alleged because I still don’t believe anyone that disingenuous really graduated from Our Lady’s school).

    Cav, I appreciate your candor but don’t really understand what you’re getting at. On the one hand, you seem to be giving up on BK and ND. On the other, you seem to say we need to be optimistic. Optimism has to be based on some kind of concrete facts; if not, then it’s just delusion. What in our recent history is the objective basis for optimism? But I do agree with you and Ted that we need to have a little patience. The operative word for me being “little.”

    1. What I’m getting at is that I’m frustrated with this team, but I think Kelly can turn this thing around in a few years.

      I’m not giving up on this team, I just think that there are too many “new” players in key positions and I think that going from a pro-style offense to a spread is not as easy as want to make it.

      What really frustrates me is that people wnat to fire the coach after 8 games. ND’s biggest problem for the last 20 years is that they have hired coaches with poor resumes and a lack of experience as a head coach. We finally hired a true experienced head coach and everyone is going nuts because he has not molded this flawed team into champions overnight.

      This team has lacked stability fot too long. These defensive players have had a new D-coordinater every year. This tean has a rookie QB that is learning an offense he has never ran while learning to read coverages. Let’s all relax, get back to our lives and see what they do next week against Tulsa.

      Who knows, maybe they can win next week, come up with a super gameplan during the bye and beat a ranked team. Heck, I’d settle for 7-5 year if they could be Utah or USC. Anything to give this team momentum for next year.

      There is nothing concrete that gives me optimsim, I just like to think that something good may eventually come out of all of this. I know it may not, but think of how good it would feel if it does. I long for the day when Lou can tell Mark May to go fly a kite.

  91. First off Diaco has to watch some film on how to stop the triple options. FB ran for 206 yrds… and he didn’t change a thing all game…. DIACO had Kap and Ethan play QB and the FB had a field day it was ridiculous. If i am Tulsa I am putting in the triple option just to run the fb….

    Not the players fault this week was purely coaching and IF Coach Kelly doesnt’ see it then he is blind…. We should have ran the ball right down navy’s throat instead of putting the entire game on Crist and then complaining about him underperforming….. Kelly is out to me lets get someone else before he recruits the RKG’s so to speak which is a nice sales pitch….. Kelly isn’t ready for the big time…. ND has more talent then every team they played against this yr and been out coached by 2 and lost 2 B/C….
    The spread is offense used by coaches who can’t coach and have a stud RB and/OR QB who takes over the game running the ball….

    1- Oregon above point stated will be terrible when rb/qb graduate
    2- boise play 1 game a yr..
    3 tcu — grt defense
    4– florida— not so good without studs
    real deal teams NOT SPread
    Alabama— not spread
    Ohio —- not spread
    Standford— not spread
    michigan st—not spread
    USC— playing better

  92. the drama on this board is ridiculous. this is college football in 2010 people! the proliferation of football and the money and endorsements involved has leveled the playing field. you can’t expect to simply line up against an fbs team and get a w.

    with that being said, the performance on defense was embarrassing. simply embarrassing. kelly showed arrogance this week and we got smoked.

    i think this was a good display of the difference between a team with a qb hitting his stride and a qb still trying to find his way. crist time and time again throws into double and triple coverage when he needs to HIT THE CHECKDOWN. it took jimmy 1.5 years to learn this, i thought we might get lucky and have crist turn a corner this year, but not happening.

    look around the college landscape, there are many extremely talented teams out there losing b/c they are training a new qb.

    i also find it funny that navy starts milking the clock on the opening kick. they never ran a play with more than 10 seconds left on the play clock. i didn’t see ian get hurt but have a feeling it was from a cut block. when is that play going to be illegal?

    1. I don’t have such a problem with the offense, missing the entire receiving corp. although if your center who can bench 500 lbs. and is next to a guy who weighs 360 you would think you could maybe you could run the ball against a service academy. I don’t expect to play like Bama but I do know that a football powerhouse like TCU would shut Navy out. These guys lost to Wake Forest who happened to give up 68 pts. to stanford. A little drama is called for when dealing with real bad actors.

      1. i am waiting for someone to call me a kelly apologist for this comment…

        navy is currently 5-2 with a couple close losses.

        they won 10 games last year including a spanking of mizzo 35-13. a mizzou team that just beat the #1 team in the country by the way. they also barely lost to an ohio st team that finished #5.

        face it boys, this team is extremely well coached and, thanks to the almighty equalizer (i.e. the cut block), the talent level is close enough to make them competitive with any team on any given day.

        they are a better team than us and showed it on the field. they will win 10 games again this year.

  93. By the way if we end up with a “next man in” put it in his contract that if you lose to Navy Security with escort you off the field with your pink slip, AAAHHHHH.

  94. IrishChan,

    This is a gay offense. It’s a gimmick. Cinci ran it and won in the suckass Big East. Who cares?! Crist is getting worse as the season goes on. That speaks poorly of him, BK, and the O coaches. Give me some smash mouth O. Heck, even the triple option is better than this gay crap. Hopefully BK modifies and brings in some other O styles to his game because this isn’t getting it done.

    As for D, well, it just sucks you know what. These guys probably tackle each other better in the showers than they do opponents on the field. I don’t want to hear how great Manti Teo is either. This guy plays like the invisible man for most of ther game. Our DBs are truly pathetic. I don’t know if they can cover me (but heck I might be faster than they are!). Gutless!

    ND is in trouble big time. The culture of losing has becoming endemic.

    I’m done for tonight. I’m embarrased to be a ND football fan right now!

    1. Since this season is pretty much of a wash I wish BK would start giving some major playing time to the back-ups. QB, Running back etc. If Crist, Allen etc. want their starting job back make them earn it. They are terrible. Same thing with the offensive line.

      It looks like the defense could use another coordinator.
      Ian Williams, Johnson, Kapron, they are terrible. Teo gets a lot of tackles after 10 or 15 yard gains.

      In my opinion the only player who does not stink is their kicker. Diaco is on thin ice if you ask me. He sucks!

      Of course we’ll beat Tulsa and everyone will again think we’re the New England Patriots.

      If we cannot be at least competitive against Utah and USC I think Kelly is also on thin ice.

    2. Teams in the top ten that run the “Gimmick offense”
      1.Oklahoma runs a lot of spread.
      3.Boise st.
      LSU and Ohio St. run a lot of spread formations as well.It may not be what Notre dame is used to but eventually I think it will be a very good offense.When you look at these teams they have had these offenses implemented for a number of years.This is year 1 for ND.Give it a chance.I do see Christ becoming more inconsistent I think more due to confidence then anything else.

    3. I BELIEVE WITH ALL MY HEART that Crist should be benched next week. Start Rees. Also, the majority of the defense should be benched. Who gives a shit if they lose to Tulsa?
      It’s about principle now.
      F%$@ Crist and him pissing down his legs. Let him sit.

      1. I absolutely agree with JDH. Damn near all these starters haven’t earned a damn thing. You’re right, who gives a shit if they lose to Tulsa.

        Offense, defense, everyone, I would bench and let them earn playing time. If I could sit BK I’d do that too.

    4. Steel Fan:

      Gay Offense?
      What are we, 7th grade?
      Esera Tualo ( who is gay) could TEACH ND many things about fundamentals defense
      If only our beloved Irish could play as well as some Gay Athletes who have heart.
      That’s so GAY?
      Wow-I thought people were beyond that.
      Incredbile, unbelievable and

  95. I’m not going to go on and on about todays game. The rest of you seemed to have done it for me. Notre Dame football is in serious trouble. This team was man handled by a much smaller, faster, disciplined team that plays with heart…with fight!

    This Notre Dame squad has none of that.

    At first I was pleased to see that Kelly was calling a game that would keep the ball in our hands for long drives. Then Crist starts forcing the ball into coverage and Navy turns it into 14 pts.

    I am NOT sold on this offense….at all!

    Our Defense is horrible….horrible…horrible.

  96. Cav,

    “There’s always next year.” You really are a Cubs fan!

    Look, people, no one is saying stop rooting for “ol’, ol’ Notre Dame.” But what we all need to do is take a step back from our passions and loyalty and see things for what they are. I for one think it’s way too early to write off BK. Having said that, the truth is that BK has never won in the “big leagues” of NCAA football. What’s more, I think he has some stiffs on his staff. Diaco was and is a terrible DC. He better not get too comfortable in S. Bend.

    As for the excuses of youth and injuries. First, this isn’t a young team. Both lines are full of juniors and seniors. Did anyone else see the way both experienced lined were manhandled by smaller, less talented players. I wish Chris Stewart would become a lawyer already and move on with his life and leave playing O line to someone who can. What a bunch of stiffs!

    As for injuries all teams have them. Navy was without its starting fullback and the one who started the season as a backup ripped us a new one. Wait! I think he just ripped off another fullback dive over the middle for 50 yards!

    Excuses, excuses, excuses.

    1. First off Rob, lets be grateful that we don’t play Oregon, absent mercy, 1,000 yds rushing and 100 points. I am not writing off BK but that Who song is stuck in my head “meet the new boss same as the old boss, won’t get fooled again.” Fire Diaco, I don’t know if chuck martin is the man, maybe we have to pay head coach money to a real D coordinator from the SEC. We can not be the laughing stock of D-1 football. Who, is more embarrassing than us right now?

      1. Agree. I was thinking this past week when the BCS standings came out and Oklahoma was #1. My gosh. Didn’t Oklahoma have 4 #1 draft choices. Their Heisman winning quarterback was taken 1st overall. Who’s number 1 now, the very next year. Oklahoma.

        All this crap about being too young or inexperienced is all bullshit.

  97. Cav,
    I’m with you it doesn’t matter what happens I will always be a fan of Notre Dame.I think what you saw today was a veteran Navy team just kick the crap out of a very young ND team.I won’t make excuses about injuries but this team is young and almost all young teams at one piont in a season take a step back(especially one that is used to losing).I hope for this step back they take 2 steps forward and build for next year.It’s like I keep saying this is not just a football team it is a football program and I think BK is building his program.I am an optimist who believes in BK this team is not very good but a lot of young guys getting playing time will build this team for next year.I’m not predicting a national championship next year but much improved no matter what BK said in the off season this is a rebuilding year so lets watch and swear at the tv and root for our Lady.

  98. First and foremost, ND is not very good and they haven’t been for along time. ND is full of themselves and are starting to get left behind. Even if this team had run the table and gone 9-3, how many bowl options would they have had? Maybe Brian Kelly isn’t the answer and we will have to suffer thru 4 more years of crap. Mark May is right that we do nothing right on the field. Kelly and ND were embarassed today, that’s for sure. There is definatly a “Culture of Losing”.

    However, I am a ND fan and I’ve been one from over 20 years. I actually started watching them in 1988 when they won the NC and I’ve been following them ever since. As I mentioned above, we stink and I’m disappointed about that, but I’m still going to be a fan and I’m still going to be optimistic. I’m always going to hope that next year will be different and it may never change or we may even get worse. That does not change the fact that I still root for ND.

    Hopefully, that next year will come sooner than later, but it doesn’t matter, I’m going to be a fan of ND. These players, these coaches, and this Universtiy have to make a decision on what they want to be. But if ND thinks they can do it the way they have always done it, I think what you see is what you’re going to get.

    I hope Brian Kelly can turn this program into a winner, but only time will tell. I’m willing to take the lumps this year because there is always hope in the next year.

  99. Brother Jud,

    If there were only more of us here! Instead, we have the leprechauns with their weekly predictions of ND’s imminent return to glory, all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

    “Culture of losing” — well said! That’s what we have indeed, a culture of losing promoted by those who seem to enjoy losing.

    If this crap is still going on 4 years from now, ND football as we know it will be dead. Let’s hope that BK turns this around sooner rather than later. ND football is at the crossroads of the future. Let’s hope ND isn’t playing for the Ivy League title 10 years from now oe has Lehigh or Lafayette as its main rival. But that’s where we’re headed if things keep going on like this.

    1. Steel,

      I agree. I have read SO MANY excuses for us. Geez, every other team is the same as us. Second,third,fourth year players but some of us seem to think we need 27 years of the same people before we can win. This is college football people.

      Maybe and again maybe BK can turn this around next year. I just have my doubts. We seem to be living (and playing) in the past. We are so full of ourselves.

      I listen to Mark May too. He might be an asshole but he’s absolutely right. We do NOTHING on the football field for anyone to take us serious anymore.

      I knew we were in trouble watching the Purdue game. The mark of a good coach is whether the offense and defensive lines start knocking people on their ass. You know, fight fight fight. That didn’t happen obviously.

      We’ll see if BK can turn this around next year but I’m afraid we’ll have to suffer numerous more times this year.

    2. Your version of ND football is clearly different from my version of ND football.
      That’s OK. Neither is 100% right, or 100% wrong. Just different. It’s America, everyone is different.
      Same with culture. To me a culture of losing encompasses a institution that doesn’t care about success. Who’s coaches see the place as a stepping stone for bigger and better things, who’s fans won’t buy up every ticket available for every home game, every year, for the last 80 years. An administration that won’t invest in upgrades and improved facilities.
      I haven’t seen anything like that around here.
      But I’m just a casual fan. Who am I to disagree. It’s not like I drop $6,$7,or $8000 dollars a year, over a 5 or 6 year term for season tickets like you guys do.

  100. alot a comments here and basically everyone is right -1. The D really sucks – no preparation here at all – at thais pace Army will run all over these guys. 2. O Line simply not doing the job – no run game at all 3. Never been a fan of Allen – just doesn’t seem to get the keys yards 4. Crist not at the stage he should be – maybe Rees needs a serious look.
    5. I also agree the spread offense is questionable – no National Champ or top five team runs it – only those trying to make up for lack of talent
    6. a more standard offense with a running game needs a look 7GET A DEFENSE

  101. I’m done with this shit, and so glad that I stopped watching after Crist got stuffed on the one and the defense watched navy run 99 yards down the field for a TD….


  102. So the reason Navy NOW owns us is chop blocking? It’s not that Navy out-schemes and outperforms ND. It’s not that the Navy boys play with heart. No. That would require that I see things for what they truly are. Instead, I’ll cry like a little bitch about Navy’s chop blocking. Boo, hoo, hoo. Navy’s been chop blocking for years, people. BK and his staff didn’t know that? Chop blocking didn’t seem to bother Lou Holtz’s teams. Perhaps Holtz’s teams were just better coached? Just a thought. But then again saying all this requires critical thinking and not making excuses. I’m so sick and tired of the crybabies on this board who look for all kinds of excuses rather than seeing things for what they are. Boo, hoo, Navy plays dirty, mommie! Maybe C-dog thinks we should take our ball and go home and not let Navy bully us anymore. Boo, hoo!

    1. I agree with you. This team has no speed and no disipline. Navy was not better than us physically, they just had more speed and more discipline.

      We needed this butt kicking to get these players to realize they have a long way to go. I’d rather have it come out this year than have the fool’s gold first year like Willingham and Weis.

      At least we are seeing some younger players get some playing time so they can be developed.

      Also, I think this year may be good for Kelly so he can grow as a coach. ND is different and he can’t just walk in and coast to a BCS game.

      1. The culture of losing still exists. Big time! Anyone who “accepts” losing is a loser themselves. Some people just don’t get it. It’s one thing to lose but to get embarrassed and humiliated and have the run run down our throats is something just to hard to take. Navy ran for over 300 yards. Good God man!
        When a team doesn’t even COMPETE numerous times this year that tells me the coach aint worth a damn.

        It’s one thing about Crist and the offense, experience blah blah blah but what about the defense.

        It’s not about the talent experience or anything else. No emotion, no heart, NOTHING!

        BK is not the answer. Another 4 years of this shit. So sad!

      2. That’s exactly right Jud and you’ve echoed my thoughts from yesterday. It’s one thing to have a bad game and not pull a game out. Happens to every team. But to get absolutely DESTROYED by a service academy is inexcusable. IT IS MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL INCOMPETENCE.

      3. i don’t know about navy not being as good physically. other than notre dames’ players being bigger every other advantage seemed to belong to navy. they were faster, hit harder, blocked bettered ,tackled harder, and played with more effort. they seemed to have as much skill if not more than notre dames’ players. if you think this game looked bad on television you should have seen it in person. navy just ripped notre dames’ line to shreds.

    2. SFR,

      Sometimes seeing things as they truly are, require that you put your self in someone else’s shoes for a change. View things from their perspective.
      First, it’s a college football game. The players aren’t professional, and recieve no cash(At least they are not supposed to)That’s why fairness, sportsmenship, mutual respect and the players well being are supposed to be stressed.
      Their is a winner and a loser.
      Some times your team plays well, sometimes they play like crap. OK.
      But chop blocking DID affect Lou Holtz’s teams, and DID pissed Lou off big time.
      Have you ever played organized football? Ever played on the defensive line?
      Ever have opposing players dive at your knees 40, 50, 60, plays a game? We’er not talking about 3rd and Short, 4th and short, or the occasional goal line plays.
      What if you were an above average defensive tackle, on a major college fotball program, and was on pace to be drafted fairly highly in the NFL draft, only to lose your chance because someone delibrity took your knee out?
      Would you be bitter?
      Ever been hobbled, on crutches, in pain with only one good leg to stand on?
      Ever suffer a injury that plagued you for the rest of your life?
      Ever have your dreams ended by some, non rated rated HS player, who will never sniff a NFL field?
      Ever lose out on a real chance to make 5 million, 10 million, 15 million dollars?
      If it were you, nobody (or at least I) wouldn’t blame you if you boo hoo’d yourself all the way into a lousy 9-5 job for the next 45 years.
      Navy and ND have played each other for almost 90 years. ND had won 43 in a row. After 20 in a row you would think that Navy would have said “enough” and discontinued the series.
      The reason they haven’t is they need ND. They need the money that is provided by playing ND as well as the publicity that comes with it.
      They helped our football program out when it was just getting started and economic times were tought. We have been helping them out ever since.
      After the game our players stand, side by side with the Navy players, and honor their Almamater.
      They honor us by taking our players knee out and send them to the infirmary.
      I’ll “boo-hoo” this morning, I’ll “Boo-Hoo” for Ian Williams this morning, because he won’t do it for himself.
      From my point of view, that’s seeing things for the way they are.

  103. for all of you who ripped me after the stanford game i have 3 words for you:
    told you so! brian kelly is SO overrated, you can easily beat nd by rushing 3 and dropping 8. his coaching staff looks lost, say what you want about weis, but i will take him any day of the week over brian kelly

    1. patrick,
      I am going to man up and give you an apology. I thought you were throwing it in way too early and being a defeatist. But you right. I was wrong. Plain and simple.

  104. Cav,

    Appreciate the optimism. But we’ve been down this road before. It was only a matter of time before Weis recruited his type of player and we would start winning again. Never happened.

    At this point, Cav, it behoves all of us to stop talking about what will happen and just wait and see (and hope) that it does. BK’s lost his grace period with me and many others after today’s pathetic performance. Once again Mark May and company were making fun of ND on national TV. We’re apparently now a “roster game” (i.e., a game when you can use your whole roster by handling your opponent with ease). You think being made fun of on national TV will help recruiting? No it won’t!

    Your logic on recruiting is plain wrong. ND’s D has sucked ass for years. By your logic we should’ve been reaping top D recruits for years now with the hopes of them playing early. Other than Manti, however, that thinking hasn’t worked for us. On the contrary, most of us can list a number of key D recruits over the last 5 years or so who either decommitted from ND or went somewhere else at the last moment not wanting to have ND’s gutless D playing rub off on them.

    Let’s ho[e you’re right, however. But like I said, no team has done less with more over the last 2 decades than ND.

    1. You’re right, ND’s defense has sucked for years, but so has the whole operation. My point is simply give Kelly time because he has proven in the past he can win. That wasn’t true about the last 3 head coaches.

      As much as we live in a microwave society, I want to see what Kelly does over the next couple of years. He may be great or this may be what ND is.

      However, I live near the South Bend area and I will continue to root on the Irish. I guess I’m used to it because I’m a Cubs fan too.

      One point though, how are Florida and Texas doing with new QB’s? Did Brown and Meyer forget how to coach? We did not get a good game out of Crist today. He needs a chance too. Let’s wait and see how he does in 2012 when he is a 5th year senior and had 3 years in the system. We are going to need it with that schedule we are facing.

      1. Cav,

        Good points. Thanks for the reasonable response. I agree that we need to be somewhat patient here. However, let’s not delude ourselves. ND and BK embarrased themselves and their fans today. No ifs and or buts about that. Honeymoon’s over, BK.

        I’ll take UT’s and UF’s problems today anyday. One bad season as compared to how many for us? Sure give me Meyer’s or Brown’s current dilemma anyday of the week! I’ll exchange a bad season couple of NC titles.

  105. Steelfan,
    Allow me to talk about 1 positive from the game. It wasn’t on NBC! So there wasn’t a commercial every 5 minutes with HORRENDOUS commentary in between!

    1. Is it me or does Tom Hammond look like a corpse with ten layers of makeup on, and he STARES at Mayack from about a foot away. My fiancee is incredibly creeped out by him.

  106. Someone in an earlier post said football has past ND by and I agree. The days of Ty’s West Coast offense and Charlie’s Pro Style offense are becoming a thing of the past. The name of the game in college football is SPEED and the one thing that keeps coming back over and over again to hurt this team is SPEED. Navy just made our defense look slow.

    I think that is what Kelly means by the “RKG”. The announcer even mentioned that Kelly prefers smaller O-Lineman so her can crank up the tempo. This is simply a work in progress and I still believe BK can get it done, just not with the upperclassman on this team. Think about it, they just started learning this system in the spring. Now compare it to Navy, who has been doing the same thing for decades. These players were recruited to play a pro-style offense and it is showing.

    The defense is just too slow and I know people think that a loss like this will hurt recruiting, but I think it will help recruiting because these players know that they have a chance of playing right away.

    ND will probably finish 6-6 because I can’t see them beating Utah and USC. However, they will go to a lesser bowl and get the practice time they so need. They will get a full off season with Longo and a spring where they can really accomplish something instead of a spring where they are learning everything.

    Kelly may be ND’s last chance to get back to being a BCS contender, but it is going to take more than 8 games to get there. They need a totally different type of player and they need to get some experience at QB. I think Crist will improve and I think BK will get the kind of players he needs to run his system.

  107. C-Dog,

    Keep your day job and leave the prognosticating to experts like Lou Holtz. Oh, I forgot, he sucks at picking ND games, too.

    I can’t believe that some people are so blind to reality that they would pick ND to beat anyone handly at this point. The reality is ND is mediocre. Mediocre teams are never a lock to beat anyone, much less a team as gutsy and disciplined like Navy. ND is all hype and history. There’s nothing substantive about ND football right now. We are what we are. That is, a gutless, sackless, overrated, underachieving crap of a team with a headcoach who looks lost in the big leagues of college football.

    Frankly, I’m done reading some of the posters here. These people are totally disconnected from reality. They’ve come to accept mediocrity in the name of loyalty (it’s not loyal to ND to settle for this garbage). Excuse-making has become second nature to them.

    Be ware of the leprechauns selling us on the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

    Football is a bottom-line business. I’ll believe ND is back when I see it, not when C-Dog and some others here start talking smack only to look like fools after ND gets punked yet again by a team that the Irish should beat regularly and easily.

    1. Steel,
      Hate to say it but you are dead on right here. Thanks for the jab, though.

      Didn’t see the game as I was chasing kids around to their own sporting events. And boy am I glad I didn’t see it. Listened at breaks and you could tell in the first quarter that this was going south.

      Gotta say I am pretty dejected at the state of this program. And I’ve pondered the thought out loud in posts gone by, but I wonder whether it’s recoverable for a Notre Dame team to be “Notre Dame” and still compete. And don’t say Navy competes. It’s a matter of time before cut blocking is made illegal. And that will end Navy’s run. They are good but never elite.

      Can Notre Dame win without dirtbags that play for the big guys?

      Oh and SteelFan, no need to hammer me. I don’t talk “Smack or get “punked”. I’m from a generation of sports fans that still think the ideal is men being men and not hanging with their “homies”. Also, my day job nets me enough right now to save for my kids to go to colleges based on academics. ND could be in the mix, but I’d be happy for them to get into one of the really good eastern private schools that only have D-3 sports.

      But serious “Steel”, go root for the jail birds at Pitt, or some other school with players who win without honor. Maybe you just don’t know what the University is all about and for any of you who only root for ND on the basis of it’s fame, this is your cue to leave and root for teams with rapists, assualt perps, and otherwise rotten athletes. Win or lose, I hope ND never has that.

      Sorry Steel, you can enjoy your sour negative attitude, but I suspect you’ll be laid off soon since you can’t ever, “drink the kool-aid”. I’d rather get caught dissapointed with enthusiastic optimism then be so sour as to always point out the negative.

      1. C-Dog,

        Typical. Rather than engage in a discussion about the state of ND football you want to posture and put on. Fine. That’s just a sign that you’re not very bright. I’m glad to hear your kids didn’t inherit you’re lack of logical thinking.

        BTW: C-Dog, there’s a difference between critical thinking (looking at the facts) and being negative. Get a dictionary and look up the definitions of each concept some time. Rather than living in somekind of fantasy land, I prefer to see things for what they are! I’ll leave the Kool-Aid drinking to the gullible like you.

        As for honor, you seem to have none. I’ve never suggested that ND should lower standards or anything like that. Don’t put words into my mouth for me. Worry about your own fuzzy thinking instead.

        Finally, I don’t root for the Pitt Panthers. Again, C-Dog, stop dissembling and deal with my real issues rather than your red herrings and strawman arguments.

        C-Dog and those like him are why we’re ridiculed across the nation by other fans. We come across not only as arrogant (living on past glories) but also as ignorant of facts and not dealing with the reality of the matter.
        Instead, C-Dog confuses critical analysis with being negative. That’s as sad as it is disingenuous (sorry for using such big words C-Dog).

        Go root for some other team so those of us he really care about seeing ND return to glory aren’t sidetracked by the likes of you and your penchant for mediocrity!

      2. SteelFan: I agree with you absolutely, positively 100% without a doubt. ND football needs to get blasted big time. Game after game, year after year for 20 freakin years.

      3. Steel.
        I graduated from Notre Dame. 1989. So I think I know about the tradition and the team. Knew enough of the guys on the team to know what it took.
        I grew up hearing about Rockne from my grandfather’s days and Leahy from my Dad’s days. What bothers me is how too many fans who don’t know much else about the university come on a board and attack everyone.
        Sorry my man, but I think I have a right to comment on someone trashing me and any other participant on a Notre Dame blog.
        Have you attended Notre Dame? Do you know why it exists and what caused it to exist? Do you know why Catholics used to cheer for Notre Dame? Arrogant, we grads aren’t arrogant. We simply strive for high standards.

        You need to hang out with Angry Eagle. He’s about your speed. Sorry I have a problem with fans who just happened to randomly pick Notre Dame and then get mad when my school isn’t making them feel good about themselves. Tell me you have some connect to ND that is more relevant than your connection to the Steelers and you might have a gripe.

        Otherwise, buzz off. You guys who are spouting off tonight aren’t critical thinkers. I might suspect a few aren’t sober.

        ND has issues on the football field for sure. IF it has you so pissed off you gotta start insulting other ND fans, then go root for something you actually have a relation to. You could be a Florida fan and insult their fans since they are sucking it up this year.

        Guys, this team has had one horrible coach in Willingham, and one novice in Weis. Davie was bad, but Willlingham and Weis created major imbalances in their recruiting. Willingham didn’t recruit lineman, and Weis didn’t recruit, other than Teo, top defenders. Kelly needs time to correct that.

        Any of you rocket scientists think someone can fix the inherent problems over night? I’m sure I didn’t see any of you who are posting tonight in any of my mechanical engineering classes. But I’m sure you all have the answers. Why don’t you just each change your blog name to coach steelfanrob there buddy. Can’t wait to see you running the program.

      4. I have to mostly agree with Steelfan here.

        C-Dog, I don’t mean any disrespect, but I don’t get all the “Why don’t you go root for Pitt / insert another team of choice / bunch of criminals etc.” Why would I / Steel fan need/want to go root for somebody else? That’s not what any of this is about…at all.

        It’s about ND being so malignant, as an institution, that they very may be beyond hope. See my prior comments about why I think that.

      5. I also agree with Steelfan. We have every right to criticise. Anyone who can’t take it should leave the kitchen. If you think this chat room is rough go look at the football forums on this site. They will chew you up and spit you out dude.

        And no we can’t fix this overnight but this is sports dude. We have a right to criticise everything.

        And with all due respect I don’t care if you graduated from Notre Dame or some junior college in podunk Alaska. It means zilch. Mechanical Engineering or underwater basket weaving. It’s all crap!

        I realize, like most of us, BK didn’t recruit any of these players but what drives me insane is their inability to compete. This is squarely on the coach. First year or not, and if you think different you’re an idiot.

        Believe me I din’t randomly pick ND and bitch about them. I’ve been a fan for close to 50 years. No, I didn’t attend Notre Dame or know why it exists. This is really lame!

        We’re FANS man. If you don’t want to cheer and boo then just sit and watch, otherwise
        man up!

  108. JDH,

    I can’t say I blame you. But get your stuff back. Put it away some where. Bring it back out only after we have something to be proud of again. That may be next year. It may take years. It may never happen again in our lifetime. But it could happen. I guess that’s as optimistic as I cen get right now.

    This looks like a CW team. No heart. No guts. No brains. I just don’t like this gay O. I know people will say that BK’s won with it. That Oregon is killing people with it. But ND’s not Cinci last year or Oregon this year. Plus I don’t think that this type of gimmicky O will win titles. It will win games but not championships. A good D will stiffle it with its short passes.

    ND is at a historic crossroads. If BK fails ND may never recover. We may be seeing the end of ND football as we know it. What do we try next? My only idea is someone who has won at the highest level of college football. Regardless, BK will be here for the next 4 years.

    1. You and I are exactly on the same page. I’ve said it, you’ve said (my folks have said it and have been fans for 50 years): if BK can’t do it than it is finished. I believe there is a fundamental and pervasive problem at ND AS AN INSTITUTION, not just a football team. I don’t know how anyone could disagree with that statement, given the school’s decision regarding football, and others having nothing to do with football. It is a malignant place I don’t recognize anymore.

      Steelfan, my wife literally took all my ND stuff out of the Goodwill bag and put in a box down in the basement. I get better than I deserve. She listens and provides great insights during my tirades like this. 🙂

  109. JDH,

    The problem is that time has passed ND by. We have to all accept that. We’ll never again be dominant. But at least we can be competitive. We’re not even that. We’re not getting blown out here by Ohio State or Alabama. This is Navy raping us in front of national TV.

    BK is delusional. Recall that this man believes Ian Williams is a “dominant” NT. Are you kidding me? Williams sucks ass.

    Sadly, say good by to our recruiting class. Not that that seems to matter. ND can have all the talent in the world and not do anything with it.

  110. Steelfan,
    There has only been 1 time in my life that I thought of “giving up” on ND. It was during Weis’s tenure. I’m getting there again. 15+ years of this is enough. My expectations are very realistic. I don’t expect too much. I understand the parity of college football.

    But I’m the skin of my teeth from being done now. Call me a hypocrite, quitter if you want. I know I’ve gotten on others for quitting, but that was back in the first 1/3 of the season.

    This game isn’t about talent. It’s about heart and preparation. Navy has it and we don’t.

    Same story over and over and over again. ND’s talent doesn’t matter because the coaches are inept and the players sackless.

    I’m done.

  111. I’m sure glad we’ve been practicing to play against this O all season. If not, we’d lose by 100 points!

    Can we hire the Navy staff? The problem is when they get to S. Bend, they’d lose all their heart, brains, and guts, just like every other coaching staff in the last 2 decades.

    BK is quickly losing all credibility. I usually give first year coaches a one year pass. But with a performance like this there can be no grace period. What happened to the 5-minute plan, BK?

  112. Please excuse the numerous typos on the previous post. But I’m so frustrated I can’t even put two words together right now.

    One more thing: Can we please for the immediate future stop with the ludicrous, Lou Holtz-like optimistic predictions. This team isn’t a lock to beat anyone, much less win by double digits.

    I said lose today and it’s a 6-6 season. I forgot we won’t beat Army playing like this.

    1. It’s pathetic. BK can’t prepare his team better than THIS?! Navy is all balls and heart. ND is all fat and brainless.


  113. I’ve now taken off my ND game-day gear. I will not be putting it back on until this team gives me something to be proud of. At this rate, that’ll take years! This team is gutless. I don’t care if the somehow come back to win this game. There’s no reason to cheer barely beating Navy year in and year out. If ND loses, this season is just about done. You’re looking at 6-6. No bowl for that crap!

    I cal already hear this board’s endless excuse makers. We’re missing 3 key players on O. (How many are we missing on D?) This is a young team. No, it’s not. The refs are against us. We’re breaking in a new O. On and on with BS excuses. Pathetic team with even more pathetic, excuse-making, medicority-tolerant leprachaun fans.

    This crap is going on 20 years and 4 headcoaches, people. This isn’t an abberation. This is what we are. A team the can’t pick up a half yard from the goal against a D that ND outweighs by a good 40 pounds ort more per man. Bottom line.

  114. Sure hope the ‘ol “get in their faces / angry half time speech” works two weeks in a row. Unless the D can generate some turn-overs though, I think we’re doomed

  115. Am I watching the same game as last weekend against Western Michigan? Our defense SUCKS. Inept, slow, flat. It’s exactly as I said earlier this week:
    If ND doesn’t control time of possession, they will lose. Because our D will not stop the triple option.

    Yes, the loss of Rudolph, Floyd, Riddick is profound, but that’s not the main problem.

    Here’s hoping Kelly rips some faces off during the half. Better stop digging and get their heads out of the asses.

    On the plus side, Crist looks pretty good, minus the very costly interception…

  116. Today begins hopefully the Jonas Show.. It should be a good week for running backs b/c we should be able to run the ball against a smaller and slower navy team… I am afraid if jonas does get an opportunity he has to take advantage of it because he is probablly 4th on the depth chart…. I just don’t want anyone to get to excited about AA or Hughes today… We already have a big sample of them against Good and Bad teams and to Quote Dennis Green they are who we thought they were…. JONAS and Cierre Needs lots of Carries so we can see what we got with the two of them… Go ND

  117. OK Fellas,
    I’m sticking to my prediction even after looking at the odds with the Irish a 6.5 favorite.
    Kelly is worried about this game, while Weis never took it seriously. Being banged up at receiver(s), could very well be a blessing in disguise. Kelly hasn’t truly trusted the run game and may be forced to.

    This was a wide open week. Don’t be fooled by reports that they didn’t practice more heavily, this team schooled themselves this week. There was extra time used by key players to be more prepared over the next six games.

    And we know that the defense has been preparing for the Cut-Block offense.

    On top of that Navy hasn’t played too many good teams. Maryland and maybe Wake Forest. Maybe Maybe Air Force, who beat Navy.

    I haven’t heard that Navy has been up against solid defenses yet. They have not put up a bunch of points.

    If the defense can disrupt up front and stay at home everywhere else, the offense needs to score each time they have the ball in the first half. It can be done with the way the Irish have played this year.

    ND had bad luck against Michigan and was still finding itself. MSU is a really good team and it came down to OT. Stanford was the only mismatch. ND should easily beat the spread. Kelly isn’t going to let them coast or let down.

    ND beats the spread and then some.

  118. I am not worried about the offense as much as everyone else is. BK was able to correct the running game in the 2nd half against Western Michigan and I think with the backs we can march out there and our line being healthy it shouldn’t be a problem. The defense is much more disciplined under BK which is what you need in order to play Navy.

  119. Just saw the 2012 schedule. WHAT A MONSTER!
    Would be surprised if it isn’t THE MOST DIFFICULT schedule in all of college football for that year.
    After seeing that, I’m all for Kelly playing as many freshmen and sophmores as he can this year!
    If ND goes undefeated in 2012, agianst that schedule, it will mean that they are one bad-ass team!

      1. JDH,
        Ironically, the easiest game on the schedule that year might be USC. With all their reductions in scholarships kicking in for a second streight year, and no post season play, that program could hit the skids about then.
        I would figure that Barkley would be gone by then too.
        Not that I’m feeling bad for USC. What goes around, comes around.

      2. You may be right- and that’s pretty crazy to think USC may be the “easiest” opponent. Regarding this year, check out the link (on this site) to bleacher report about our 2010 schedule. I think it’s pretty interesting. Indeed, this year is not as “easy” as many once thought!

  120. BK won’t get fooled by this option they way CW and staff always did. I’m more concerned about the offense with all the injuries and our lack of a true running game. There are very few possessions in a game with Navy and we need to score everytime we have the ball.

    Let’s keep the momentum building.

    1. Poz,

      I share your concerns. Especially about the limites possessions.
      After facing the Mich St. and Stanford running games, and a top running QB in Michigan’s Denard Robinson, I’m hopeful our defense (which is tackling much better this year) is up to the challenge of Navy.
      If they can force a few punts and some turn-overs, they can take a lot of pressure off our depleted offense.
      (We missed two critical field goals in last years game that would have ensured a victory. We are in much better shape this year)

    2. As long as the defense keeps stopping the run, BK will run the ball more this week.

      And the defense is prepared. Kelly announced that he’s had a demonstration squad learnign the triple option including cut blocks, just for this game. It’s obvious he wants a big win and wants to leave no doubt.

      So if the defense shuts Navy’s offense down, BK will run the ball. This is a good game to establish the run as an effective weapon in the offense. The injuries are at receiver positions. Allen is healthy, Hughes and Wood are doing well. I would expect Kelly to want to burn some clock to keep the defense fresh and to minimize the number of cut blocks perpetrated by Navy. I’d love to think he’d go 70% run, but I’d expect maybe 40% to 50%, depending. I do hope he demands that the line and backs create some big gainers. Utah and USC will load up to defend the pass if ND doesn’t establish an effective running game in this upcoming game and against Tulsa. Look for it.

      1. C-Dog,

        It’s as if you were in my head and spoke for me on that post man.

        Establish the run… we have the backs to do it. Keep our defense off the field. They’re going to need to be fresh and ready for lots of contact this Saturday.

        This will be a good game to develop our younger receivers…don’t make them think they have to win the game for us by making the passing game the most important part of the offense.

        Pound Hughes up the middle, soften their d-line and line backing corp. Let A.A. and Wood finish them off with their speed and elusiveness.

        Then you have play action passes and vertical passing open all day long.

        Go Irish!

        And… go Team AKA. Cain is gonna whoop some ass Saturday night!

      2. C-Dog,

        I feel better about our defense in this game than I have in a long time.

        It starts up front agianst Navy and their option with Ian Williams. This guy is our best lineman and has been playing really well. I think he will be a force in this game on Saturday.
        He is backed up by Teo & Calabrese. That’s a pretty strong presents on the inside agianst the run.
        On the edges is Johnson and Moore, who are backed up by Fleming and Neal. Agian, very strong and good speed agianst the run.
        And the most improved of all is the tackling of our secondary.
        Harrison Smith took his lumps last year, but that experience has served him extremely well this year at saftey.
        Our field goal kicking was woeful last year. Not anymore.
        ND plays extremely well in New Jersey.
        Kelly has made it a priority to work on the option a little bit each week.
        As long as we don’t turn the ball over, I think the defense will carry the day.

  121. Bummer. I posted last night and it’s not here. Say’s awaiting moderation. It was so vanilla. Just said that I think we will beat Navy quite soundly this year.

    The defense is getting quite solid, especially aginst the run. Pass defense is still giving up one big play per game, and then getting somewhat tentative.

    The offense is still inconsistent, but Kelly may finally trust Wood and Hughes. Plus someone told the O-Line to step it up.

    So if the Irish remember how to play as they did in the 2nd half of the Western game, and determine that they will play that way for 60 mins. This should not be a close contest.

    If the defense disrupts the runs before all that cut blocking takes place, you’ll see a 24 point margin by half time. That’s the key.

    1. I heard that Dever is supposed to be back, and with that, Zack Martin will move back to his normal LF Tackle spot. Maybe that will help with consistancy along the O-Line.
      Jonas Gray was said to be on the mend, but haven’t heard if he was going to be available for this game.
      Calibrese has had trouble covering running backs comming out on pass routes. That shouldn’t be much of a problem this week. I look for him to come up big this week.
      Doc made a very good point about there not being much punting in this game.
      Navy is not afraid to go for it on fourth down.
      The guys have to be ready to defend all four downs.
      BK stated that the team has been working on the option a little bit each week since fall camp. With there being no classes this week, he has had the team up early for practice in preperation of the noon time start.
      Sounds like the team will be pretty well prepared.
      Not like last year when Weis decided that the team would just do the same thing that they did the year before agianst Navy.

  122. Well, with Riddick out, Floyd hurting and Rudolph done for the year we’ll see just how good of a coach BK really is.

    1. You bet. So Allen is supposed to be back. So three healthy running backs. And the claim is that the spread is not just about the pass. Robbie Toma looks decent, both Tight Ends should be fine. Kamara has his chance, and Jones and goodman need to be able to play consistently. Most of all crist needs to know to expect his receivers to get to the ball.

      But yes, let’s see if Kelly can stomach running the ball and including some ND tradition in his modern offense. So amny of you have said it and it should be obvious. Teams that can run the ball win.

  123. Considering the Irish have had a “push” four times this season on the point spread (-7), I will go with ND 31 Navy 24. (Not a lot of punting in this game either.)

    And as always, I agree with Shaz. Stack up against the run and send Robert Hughes / Cierre Wood head to head with them on multiple downs per series.

  124. The Irish need to knock that shit eating grin off Navy’s head coach’s face. That arrogance he carries eats me alive.

    ND 45
    Navy 17

    1. give the devil nhis due – look at what he has done with what he has to work with – that is why Navy is always a problem

    2. @SHAZAM:
      You make good points and I know that you don’t disrespect our military. And of course our players/any players’ health is not less valued than an academy’s players. We agree about the cut blocks and dirty play. Your response was well thought-out and I can see what you are saying- the hypocrisy is on the playing field, not regarding their lives after football is over. That I can agree with.

      One fine point though- 101st Airborne is NOT Special Forces. Two totally different things. (and I mean zero disrespect to the 101st AirborneDivision or the SF Regiment) 🙂

      1. JDH,

        There are a few college teams out there (USC, Miami)
        that I just don’t like, and want nothing more than to pound them, and beat them.
        But I want ND to do it the right way.
        I want us to beat them strieght up, on a level playing field, through hard work, and smart, dedicated, team play.
        And in the end, when the dust settles, may the best team win, and where ALL the players involved can WALK off the field with their heads held high.
        I’ve always bit my lip when it comes to the sevice academies and their style of play, mostly out of respect for their daily work load, responsibilities, and commitment to our country.
        But this has been going on for years and years, and it rips my heart out to see good kids and good players get injured for no good reason other than a technicality in the rules that allows a few teams to get away with this style of play.


  125. Last year’s Navy game really pissed me off.
    Beating Navy isn’t rocket science. We see the same thing every year.
    First, You stop the fullback dive up the middle, then
    you get after the QB quickly and limit his options, followed by good tackeling on the running backs on the sweeps by Linebackers, corners and safties.
    DON’T TURN THE BALL OVER! Navy is a +12 in turn-overs. They need turn-overs to survive. Don’t give them any. Be aware that they go for the ball.
    They love the reverse. And they always try a deep hitch and go at least once per half. As long as our safties stay at home(something we have struggled with over the last 4 games) we should be OK.
    You have to run the ball some. Running the ball will keep Navy’s defense on the field more. (this is something that Charlie Weis never figured out)It will wear their defense down enough that come the fourth quarter they will be vunerable. Do better on first down so the day doesn’t become another second and third and long. Give them enough 2nd and 3rd and longs and they will get to your QB. (see Jimmy Clausen in last year’s game)
    Test their special teams. This has traditionally been a weak link for Navy.
    Kick off returns, punt returns, blocking punts, field goals, and blocked PAT’s has always seemed to dog Navy over the years.
    Get a lead and keep your foot on the gas, pour it on if you can.
    Navy never surrenders.
    Finally,Play with a mean attitude. We have shown them plenty of respect… and gotten none in return.(Remember their head coaches comments after last year’s game? I sure the hell do!)The Seniors on Navy are trying to become the first Navy class to beat ND three times in their careers.
    Enough is enought!

    1. Last year’s Navy loss was truly one of the worst defensive performances I’ve seen, at any level of any team, in my life. I don’t think that will happen on Saturday.

      Time of possession and lack of penalties/TO’s will be absolutely key. ND is like 126th in the nation in time of possession. That is critical and if that does not change for Saturday, Navy will probably win. Because their offense will tire out our D by the second half.

      If time of possession is in our favor, I think we’ll be fine. They should not be able to stop the likes of Floyd, Allen, Riddick, Wood etc. (hopefully they all play)

      1. God I hope we destroy Navy, not only beat them but play mean and physical and hurt them, let them know they’re in a real game. They’re a chippy team that plays dirty and it’s time to thrash them for a change.

      2. As long as ND takes the high road, Navy will continue their chippy ways.
        For some reason, because their guys on the offensive line are smaller than most everyone they face, they are allowed to get away with those dirty cut blocks. They have convinced themselves and anyone who will listen that it is the only way for them to level the playing field.
        Then they hide behind their military status of Pride and Honor. What a bunch of Hypocrites.
        I see nothing Honorable about cutting Brian Smith’s knee and knocking him out of the last two games of his Soph. season. It could have cost him his career, and in my own opinion, he has never been the same player since.
        Last year Robert Blanton was the victim of one of the worst cheap shots that I ever saw by Henderson of Navy.
        Normally a head coach will pull the kid out of the game for a cheap shot like that, but not Navy. The Kid stayed in.
        Of course if 350lb Chris Stewart were to cut Navy’s defensive tackle’s knee and the kid got carted off, Stewart would probably get tossed by the Ref’s for unsportsman like conduct.
        Although, If it sent a clear message, it might actually be worth it, maybe even needed!

      3. I totally agree. I hope BK and his staff reminds the team of Navy’s style and plays clips of those cheap shots before the game so ND is ready to tear some heads off as they take the field. ND needs to play with some anger. Plenty of time to respect Navy after ND destroys them.

      4. Sorry but I have to say this, even if it causes some annoyance. Shazam, I certainly agree with you that last year’s Navy game was very frustrating and there were truly some dirty plays. The cut against Smith was terrible and absolutely he should have been tossed- by either the officials and/or the coach. It was an ugly game all around.

        I disagree though with the tone and the label of “hypocrites” and “hiding behind their military status”. I think you need to tread a little lighter here. Most of those “hypocrites” will be going into harm’s way at some point, and very much LIVE pride, honor, selfless service etc. While last year’s game and those incidents were unfortunate, let’s keep some perspective. I don’t recall dirty games like that against service academies very often. And I’d be smiling too if I was Navy’s coach(es). Given that they ran the same plays for 4 quarters with great effect, then listening to all the uber-stupid comments by ND’s coaches after the loss, you bet I’d be smiling.

        Don’t get me wrong- I’m not trying to “police” your comments and I’m very anti-PC. Just disagree with the tone, if you will. Football games come and go. The sacrifices these guys make for years to come, and many times for the rest of their lives, are unimaginable to 99% of our population (because only 1% serve).

        And btw, yes I want to see the Irish absolutely dismantle Navy on Saturday. Destroy them utterly and then, as always, raise their gold helmets in tribute to their service and sacrifice.

      5. I have always held those who serve in the military in the highest reguard. One of my closest and dearest friends just recently retired from the 101st special forces after 22 years of service.
        My remarks are more focused at the coaching staff who teach and encourage a type of play that I personally feel is detrimental to the college game. Their coaches know that cut blocking causes career ending injuries, but winning games (by useing whatever advantage they can exploite) is more important than the health of other 18,19,& 20 year olds. Is their health less valued because they don’t serve the military?
        The NFL is currently changing the rules governing helmet to helmet hits because of the physical damage it causes.
        I saw Manti Teo get flagged for a roughing the passer call where he did little more than give a slight shove to the opposing QB, not even knocking him down.
        Yet one of our guys gets his knee (and yes, they directly targeted his knee) cut, and is
        dragged off the field and nothing is said or done.
        This by a Navy player who will never sniff a pro field, possiably denying another player a real chance at pro football and the millions of dollars that go with it.
        We just played Western Michigan. Our defensive line out weighed their offensive line by aprox. 30-40lbs per player. But they didn’t stoop to cut blocking tactics.
        I have nothing but the highest respect for these young men and woman. Especially when they step onto a battlefield.
        When they step onto a football field, their play should be under the same rules and exspectations as the rest of us.
        Just because the NCAA turns it’s head the other way, and allows them to cut block doesn’t make it right. They know this. Yet they continue with business as useual.
        Where is the Honor in that?
        Is it Honorable to distroy a young man’s dreams as well as his knee?
        You might not recall any dirty games agianst the service academies, but I do. I remember Fisher DeBerry and Air Force. They were even worst than Navy.
        Hurting players is never right. The style they use causes players to get seriously hurt. They know it, you Know it, I know it.
        But they can’t compete without it.
        If that isn’t hypocrocy, or hiding behind their status, what is is it?

  126. Well, at the end of the day, it is a free site, so it is hard to complain. I go to Irisheyes @ and get fresh content throughout the day, but I pay for it. So, give these guys a break, it really functions as a chat room with a little expert opinion.

    1. Yeah it’s a free site, so are the overwhelming majority of sites on the net. This isn’t a personal attack on Frank and of course I hope he is ok too. Regarding the lack of content, everybody can have a bad week etc.

      But we’re going on over a month now of missed pregame and missed postgame articles/analysis. That’s getting really old really fast.

  127. For a bit of background, I grew up less than 20 minutes from ND stadium and attended lots and lots of games over the years. Unfortunately for my ND fandom I now live in California (land of the annoying USC/Cal fan) and miss going to ND games and screaming my lungs out(literally) at the games. I dont get to participate in gamedays in south bend(some would say Great!) but I miss it very much. While it is sunny and 75 here and blue gray back home (yes I still call it home) I still miss gamedays. Enough of the emotional ranting….how good is Carlo Calabrese F yeah!

  128. Good point guys. I rarely post but do enjoy reading your posts and checking in almost daily to read content posted by frank and authors. It is severely lacking and I am just curious as to why (please believe me I mean no disrespect). I do appreciate ALL of the articles from the past but am just curious as to why there is so little written as of late??? I love ND football…literally wait for it all week til my big saturday and love watching the games. Up until the last couple weeks the coverage has been great….whats up?

  129. This week could see the Irish re-establish the way it used to be and take that next step forward. Look for a dominant defense. With all respect to Navy, this defense is capable of blowing up runs early. Kelly will work on the offense to set goals for each half. Look for more Wood and Hughes. Look for Kelly to be on top of the line. Crist should be sharp.

    I just see Kelly using this game and next game to get the players thinking about their own play.

  130. I agree. I come on this site everyday hoping for something new. I don’t always post but I do read them.I just don’t understand why there isn’t anything about saturdays game or this weeks game against Navy. I don’t always have time to watch the whole game do to being a highschool coach and all those responsibilites but I still love ND and want to know how they are doing(real opinions).Thanks to you guys who do post I appreciate them and enjoy some of the rants. As for the team from what I get to watch each week I see improvement every week even if its just small things like the OLBs staying outside on play action booltlegs.I see this team finishing strong and building towards a really good season next year. Thanks to everyone who does post and UHND at least one article a week.

    1. you want something about navy. navy has a triple option attack until they are inside the ten yard line. then its a fake to the fullback and a keeper by their gloryhound quarterback. last week in the second half was the first time i saw another back carry the ball inside the ten yard line. something for nd to watch.

  131. Does anyone have Franks number… If so someone should shoot him a call to see if he’s still alive. This site has been absolutely dead with exception to the 4-5 of us who can’t seem to stay off of it.

    1. with the win on Saturday, and the numerous story lines available. Like sporting a winning record. The play of Wood, Eifert, Ruffer, or Floyd. Hearing the names of Montana, Golic, and Collinsworth mentioned during the broadcast. Scoring 40 points for the first time this year. Our high national ranking in punt and kick off coverage, And all the Recruiting news, I would have exspected at least something.
      Maybe Frank is feed-up with all the bickering and in blog fighting.
      But when it comes to ND football, the fans are some of the most passionate anywhere. It comes with the territory.
      I do hope that he isn’t sick.
      I always enjoyed his views and perspective on all things ND.

      1. The truth is Frank is probably just like the rest of us. Has a career and other responsibilities that has kept him from spending time on this site.

        I understand he has been running this site for many years now. It probably started out as a fun hobby and it turned into what it is today by being consistent in his writing as well as providing some good insights into ND Football.

        I mean the man no disrespect as I’m grateful for the site and the “forum” of all you people. I enjoy being able to read others opinions and debate the “issues” that ND fans see.

        Anyways, hope all is well with Frank but also hope for some “inside” info we he gets a chance!

        GO IRISH—-

      2. On a side note I do go to as they post ND Football articles that have been written around the country….for free. Many of them come from blogs like as well as newspapers from around the country.

  132. i don’t want to bring up another topic that has been discussed and blogged about ad nauseum, but i will anyway.

    does anyone, or has anyone ever in the past decade, actually know for a fact that a recruit was turned away because, although they met minimum standards of the ncaa, they did not meet notre dame’s ‘heightened’ standards for athletes?

    has anyone considered that this was self-imposed by the athletes or by the coaches in who they choose to recruit?

    everyone knows that nd won’t give athletes answers to tests or write papers for them, and the coaches and faculty tell recruits that it is tough academic rigor. you can only ‘hide’ athletes to a certain extent at such a small school, they will be exposed eventually. the antonio cromardies simply don’t go to nd because they don’t want an education, not because nd has some arbitrary higher number required for the sat or gpa. people talk about these standards as if they are a given, but they’re not.

    i contend – on good authority – that the standards are not imposed/enforced by the administration. the coaches have the leeway to recruit everyone that florida, texas and bama recruits, they simply don’t because illiterate students will not make it once they are in the program.

    go irish! beat navy!

    1. I recently had read Lou Holtz book where he addressed this topic however not in great depth. I will have to re-read his comments on it for an exact quote however I do remember the context of his thought. Lou had been told by the administration to never under any circumstance’s ask the school to bend their standards to recruit an athlete to ND that doesn’t meet the criteria.

      Lou however did ask and was promptly reprimanded for doing so following his hire.

  133. Whats up with how quiet it is at the stadiun now?????? were is the fire and passion that made that stadium a tough place to play??? the student section is always up and loud what about the rest of you?????? i know the last few years have been tough but if there was ever a time this team needed a little help it would be now just seems like everyone sits on there hands when things are not going well all you see is dead silence i live in toronto canada & watching on my t.v. i can hear nothing like the way it use to be hope im wrong lets go beat NAVY!!!!!!!!! GOING TO BE A SLUGFEST the ND Defence has to keep playing better seems if a team runs between the guard and tackle if manti or carlo get blocked those runs turn into 10 20 or more yds every time great test for the irish D this weekend time for some players to step up GO IRISH BEAT NAVY!!!!!!!!!!! PAYBACK GAME

    1. I’m pretty sure we already addressed this subject, at length, last week. I’m not trying to be a smartass, but this was discussed in detail.

      And you are not going to find that the average person on this site is the problem. We are the ones standing up when we’re at games and arguing with the 85 year-olds who want to have a “nice football picnic” and go home.

      1. is it possible to cheer while your sitting down. notre dame stadium provides a perfect view of the entire field from any seat in it. people want to see the game not your back. i never knew we lost our voice when we sit down.

  134. WINNER WINNER… Chicken Dinner!

    Congrats go out to number #97. Another great job today. Keep up the good work!(that’s all I’m going to say about that!)

    Ciere Wood stepped up. I like the way he concentrated on securing the ball. Now that he has his first TD under his belt, I exspect him to relax a bit and put together a string of really good games.

    Micheal Floyd, when he doesn’t fumble, he makes it look so easy!

    Tyler Eifert. Another player who did well as “next guy in” 4 catches and a TD.

    The ND defense. They continue to improve each week. It’s so enjoyable to watch a team that tackles well. And that kid Teo, the Flyin Wawaiian, man can that kid hit! Keep the blockers off him and he really cleans up well!
    Starting to see some pressure on opposing QB’s, and some sacks.
    Did give up another deep ball.

  135. OK we all agree on msot points – More consistency needed and the mind game needs to come around – the mindset to put teams away hasn’t come yet. A lot of things still need work – I too have never really been a fan of AA -just doesn’t seem to have that extra gear that it looks like Wood and maybe Jonas has nor the short yardage power that Hughes has – the old work in progress – The key is consistency and perfromance by Crist -have a chance to finish really strong but can’t take anything for granted. If the head is not on right Navy wiil hand us our lunch – Tulsa very beatable and Utah – have you looked at their schedule – talk about a cupcake – how are they ranked in the top ten playing that schedule. The time for fine tuning is about at an end – it needs to come together now

  136. BTW,
    Can anyone provide any insight at all regarding the “offensive pass interference” call that went against TJ Jones in the red zone? He LITERALLY WASN’T WITHIN 5 YARDS of his defender. What was it? Interference with his eyes? I assumed the official just got the number wrong and maybe it was another ND player. That + the non-call on Floyd in the endzone were pretty pathetic….

    1. JDH,

      Maybe I’m just becoming “jaded” when it comes to the officiating and ND football.(this BS has been going on for years now)
      ND had 9 penilities for 80 yards.(with a few of those of the phantom type that has become so common with ND)
      Western Michigan had 2 penilities for 20 yards! TWO!
      Both of their penilities came in the scecond half(probably after Kelly gave the Ref’s a ear full at half time)
      I’m of the belief that getting screwed over by the Ref’s is just another facet of the game that ND will need to be aware of, and dealt with, as part of the team’s weekly preperation.
      We all can complain, (and have) all we want, but that never seems to resolve anything. The only choice left is to prepare for it, know that it is coming, and deal with it the best you can.

      1. I don’t like to complain about officiating because of the obvious “whiner” connotation. But I agree- there have been ALOT of very bad calls or non-calls over the last 2 seasons that have contributed to ND losing games. Last year’s Michigan game was probably the worst I’ve ever seen, in my life. Taking away Floyd’s obvious touchdown against MSU last year. The bad calls this year vs. Pitt. The extra second given to MSU. The phantom calls on Saturday. The list goes on. I really think the phantom call against TJ Jones needs to be talked about. That official needs to be held to account. Show him the film and demand how on earth he could make that call when those 2 players NEVER came within 5 yards of eachother.

        All officials make mistakes. But sometimes it really does seem conspiratorial…

      2. Last week Kelly DID complain about the offensive pass interference call, saying he has run that play for years and we run it the right way.
        Normally an offensive player has to make some kind of contact with the defense for that to get called. Didn’t happen here with TJ Jones.
        Maybe someone was trying to send Kelly a message?
        One day, possiably in the not too distant future, ND will be ranked and find themselves in a big time ballgame.
        That’s when I want the Ref’s to get it right. In the mean time let no ne say that we didn’t pay our dues.

  137. The crowd was louder this week for some odd reason. There were less students there as well. I wonder what changed. It wasnt defening by any stretch buuut not as cranky.

    I felt the first half started good with the DC pass to Floyd but then went pretty cold. Wood had some amazing cuts and has a very quick burst. I think he dances a little too much and needs to stop bouncing it outside.

    Props to Floyd. He had a monster game.
    D was inconsistet…again.

    Should beat Navy next week. I hear Green Jerseys coming out.

  138. Wood is Only a Soph who looked Great on Some plays against a Bad “D” and Terrible on other plays against a Bad “D”. What we need is a healthy Jonas who will be a different maker with AA as a third down spell u back and Hughes as a short yardage… yes short yardage b/c he is very slow…agile, tough, (love him) but slow… we need to have a I formation package like every other spread team in the nations as just something to get us going especially against teams we are dominant on when we are horrible and Crist is struggling…..

    JONAS 200yrd versus Navy next week if he gets a chance that wood just got… GO ND!!!!

    1. Not sure if you’re replying to my opinion on Wood in an earlier post but I really disagree that it was a bad defense that made Wood look good yesterday.

      His patience, vision, and hip power is far…. far better than AA. Wood uses his explosiveness and sensational ability to change direction at full speed to break tackles and make people miss.

      I was talking about C. Wood as an athlete and his ability to break off a run that’s longer than 5 – 7 yrds.

      Granted his play in other facets of the game need work. He’s not as good of a 3rd down back as AA due to his blocking ability. But he will get better.

      As far adding some kind of “power” type formation so Kelly can begin to develop an aggressive power football presence… I’m all in.

      Again, in terms of athletic ability Hughes showed this weekend that he can get that big body of his to make a move and lower his shoulders. He’s very agile for as big as he is. He’s not a threat around the corner but getting 5-10 touches a game between the tackles is a most.

      Maybe I’m not sold on the Spread Offense yet because I would like to see the ground game become far more balanced than what I’ve seen thus far.

      -4 yards in first half is simply unacceptable! Especially against the kind of team that we were playing. Had we been playing catch-up or been playing a top 10 defense than maybe I would be a bit more open to those kinds of numbers.

      1. i agree with 99.9% of everything you said… I thought wood started to look good last week when he got a few carries on a drive which is tough to get in this sometimes 1 dimensionsal offense, and he did look great on some carries with his great little hip cuts… But on the downside the soph did try to bounce outside way to many times and when he was making his little cuts I was wandering if it would be to slow against a first rate D like it has been in the past…
        But I would rather watch more of wood then aa……I am still hoping for Jonas

  139. At the risk of being labeled a Leprachaun at 6’6″ & 240 lbs, I will go out on a limb and say it was a good show for our visiting guest, running back Savon Huggins from New Jersey, as he saw our team come back out and put up 150 yards rushing in the second half and he got to hang with a few celebrities on the sidelines.

    However, if we play like this next Saturday against Navy and we’ll get our lunches handed to us, so this was a good wake-up call (so we don’t be tempted to hit the snooze button next Saturday). I am starting to think there is too much of a circus atmosphere around the school on a football weekend and the team appears to do better at night road games with less distractions.

      1. Boys,

        Haven’t heard any leprechaun-like comments. On the contrary, it seems everybody is pretty much being objective. No overblown comments or excuse-making. It seems everybody is on the same page. ND played down to the opponent in the ist half. BK tore them a new one at the half. ND played its best half of ball in the 2nd against WMU. Now, it’s WMU. having said that, let’s enjoy the win and hope ND doesn’t come out flat against Navy. The Navy boys won’t be as generous as WMU.



  140. Don’t wanna be labeled a Leprachaun SteelFan, but this game showed some good signs. The first half was pathetic. ND came out flat. WMU came out realizing the opportunity they had before them and played with heart and no fear. Thats what happens in these type of games. Great, traditional teams often overlook the feisty litle guys that don’t “belong on the schedule.” Those same little guys look at the game like its their entire season. Thus, traps happen to everybody. OSU and Purdue last year. Alabama and Utah in the Sugar bowl a couple years ago.

    The good news is, ND actually turned it on and took care of business in the 2nd half. And that is definitely improvement. CW would not have been able to wake em up the way Kelly did. The Irish would have come out from half with that 10 point lead and that sense of entitlement and we would have seen yet another epic fail in the vein of Syracuse, UCONN and Navy. The fact that ND came out and actually finished strong says alot about the direction we are going. finally, we are beating the teams we should beat.

    Don’t get me wrong, I would love to have seen them play like they did the 2nd half for the whoke game. But considering that just last year we would have played like we did the first half the whole game, I see it as a huge improvement.

  141. A tale of 2 halfs first half sumed up the way this team has played the last 3 yrs and counting glad to see them pound the ball in the 2nd half wood looked good great to see hughes pound it up in there. Floyd had a great game @ Eifert steped in nicely SLOWLLLLLLLLLLLY but surely starting to improve lets see what happens the last 5 games of the season its in there hands GO IRISH BEAT NAVY PAYBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cant belave im saying that 2 of the last 3 yrs these guys have gotten us

  142. Allen was banged up and needs the rest. The defense got their heads out of their ass in the 2nd half. We would have never seen that 2nd half under Eris.

    1. I can’t remember the last AA has had a game like Wood did today. Break tackles? Make people miss? I’ve been waiting for several years for AA to pull off a 25 yrd TD run.

  143. Robert Hughes ran hard too. I would really like to see more of him and wood. I realize that we run a spread offense but damn.

    1. Totally agree. Hughes is a reliable short yardage back and should be used more. It was smart also to get Armando Allen out of there and let him rest…

      Great second half Irish…

      1. Well, I wouldn’t hold him to being a “short-yardage” back and that’s it. He a really agile 240 Ib back. He busted off a 25 yr run between the tackles using power, spins and jukes. He’s not gonna beat anyone around the corner, but he’ll do some damage between the tackles!

      2. Agreed and I didn’t mean to “limit” him to that. To expand upon my thought, I don’t understand why he isn’t used more in short yardage situations, such as a 3rd and 5 or 4th and 2. Hopefully he will see more time going forward…

  144. -4 Yards Rushing in the FIRST HALF? How many times did Kelly call for AA or Woods number in the first half? 5-7 times maybe. It’s no wonder that the Western Defense was pinning their ears back and bringing 5-6. They didn’t have to defend the run because Kelly seems to think you don’t need it.

    With Wood in mind… he made an impression on me in the second half. That kid is an athlete. He needs to see the ball 15-20 times a game. I’ve kinda given up on AA.

    Great second half though.

    Happy about the win…just don’t understand why Kelly can’t develop a ground game.

  145. Hats off to the Irish. They were up by 10 in the first half and won by over 20 in the second half with back ups in for Q4. They were never not in control. Lets give them some praise for the win rather than tearing them down boys.

  146. Someone needs to hide Brian Smith’s helmet, or cross his name off Diaco’s two deep…Play Shembo and Filer!!!! Smith is a special teams player.

  147. I thgink we all agree the first half was pathetic – would have loved to be in the locker room at half. Kelly was going crazy -We forget how much the mental aspect comes into play – that is an area that BK really need to shape and mold and it will take a while SEcon half better – -4 yards the first half no excuse for that against any team let alone one from the MAC
    no offense Western – that was where my frist two years of school were spent but this should have been any easy walk BK HAS GOR TO GET IT INTO THEIR HEADS THAT GAMES ARE FOR FOUR QUARTERS — the mental thing has to be dealt with – takes some time

    1. Word Steelfan. Whatever BK said/yelled at halftime to the D, I concur.

      Much less sloppy 2nd half.

      When was the last time ND scored this amount of points?

      When was the last time ND stadium did the WAVE?! LOOOOOONG time I’m betting. 4th qtrs. are almost always heart attack inducing but today the crowd/fans can actually have some fun….

  148. I hear ya SteelFan and I agree that the buck stops with the HC, no doubt. It’s just that the defense has made some real strides this year. Today, it’s not like BK is getting outcoached or lacking intensity. I see it as the players on the defensive end of the ball. They are flat as hell.

    Let’s hope for a much more INTENSE AND INTELLIGENT 2nd half….GO IRISH! GET THE JOB DONE!

  149. JDH,

    The buck always stops at the headcoach. I’m sick and tired of making excuses for coaches at ND. I’m just growing sick of watching ND football. Period. There’s no heart. We always play down to the opposition. This looks like a CW team. In fact, this game has the feeling of the Syracuse game a few years ago. let’s just hope that missed extra point doesn’t come back to haunt us. (I can’t believe I’m even saying that!) Pathetic is right, JDH!

  150. SLOPPY SLOPPY SLOPPY. Penalties and unforced errors. Totally unprepared DEFENSE to play against a %^&*ing MAC team that is 2-3….AT HOME. Pathetic. The only reason we’re ahead by 10 points is because of turnovers. Thank God for small favors. Are you kidding me?

    This is not Kelly’s fault. This is players not ready to play. Kelly better rip some asses and make some MAJOR THREATS at the half. This team is very much in danger of giving a W to a MAC school.

  151. Wow! This team is pathetic. This is where ND football has been for almost 2 decdes and 4 headcoaches. Mediocre crap! Somehow, our loveable leprechauns on this board will find a way to try to convince us that all is well, that we’re improving, that we have a team with talent, a genius coach, etc. It’s all busllshit until we actually prove something on the field. I don’t want to hear that a victory at home against WMU is somekind of accomplishment. PLEASE, LEPRECHAUNS, KEEP THAT CRAP TO YOURSELVES!

  152. Wow! This is painful. Maybe we need our coach to have a heart attack to get some of our own I look at what Sparty is accomplishing and really have to scratch my head on this team.

  153. What a piece of crap 1st qtr. When, oh when, are we going to gut some overmatched team from the get go?! Looked like today was going to be the day. TD on the first play. 3 and out on the first D series. But then the ND slop and slather begins. Only 1 FD on the ensuing series. Bad punt. Grab-ass, gutless D, Broncos TD. game on!

    1. SteelFanRob:

      I concur wholeheartedly.
      The Irish played with very little heart most of the time and should have scored over 60 and kept the opponet down in the teens at most.
      BK did say “somewhere this team thinks they have arrived with defense and that assignements are covered.”
      I was not impressed but glad for a win. ( That’s not mediocre thinking just truth)
      Still If ND allows that much too Navy–who is not a gimme, we will be sweating it out-again. Defense is too damn soft on the corners. The run must exist–and then be established. Stupid penalties and little heart. Glad Charlie wasn’t coaching this one. I still don’t like a MAC team on the schedule–at all.

  154. Ohhhhh man. I can’t wait to see what this team is gonna look like after another hard week of practice! GO IRISH!!!!!

  155. I don’t like the idea of a MAC team at all.
    They have nothing to lose and ND does just by virtue of our past and hope for return to glory–( all ND fans want that of course)
    Think how Western Mich will feel ( if ) they come away without losing.
    I CANT say the w word with them—as I’m not wanting to “cast a curse” on our beloved ND. ( Hey , I’ve been a fan since age 4-first time I remember and graduated from there and love the blue and green and gold and bleed it.
    NOTHING is a gimme. ( just ask appalachian state) NOTHING is anymore.
    So–ND MUST control the line of scrimmage, the clock and NOT for the love of heaven be soft on corners. The MAC has talent ( NO NOT EASTERN MICH. lol SORRY buckeye fans actually rejoiced in this in their media–not all but most did-GAG) and my neighbors have the gall and guts to point out that ND has the creampuff this weekend while they “have it tough”

    ( osu against marshall herd, OU from athens and e.mich and the cocaines of miami) ok there’s one
    a struggle against Illinois and a FIFTH home game against IU where they did shut down the ir offense.
    Outside of that , OSU should’nt point fingers at all–)

    So ND has Western?
    Good University and overlooked by many.
    Just because the helmets are ND REAL gold doesn’t guarantee a win–however, I want a win–a demolishing one at that—and see this team continue to impove in the running game most of all.

    I think that is fair to Western Mich and our beloved Irish.
    COME ON ND–TIME OFR A BLOWOUT -not unlike what ND did to Boston in the Lou Holtz Era 54-7!

    good night all.
    WE ARE ND———————————!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. At 3-3 maybe ND should stop worring about who we are playing and what they do, and concentrate on what we need to do.
      If we take care of our own business, everything else will take care of it’s self.
      It wasn’t too long ago that Buckeye fans used to ridicule us about playing Navy every year.
      Last year they opened at home agianst Navy. They EXSCAPED with a win if for no other reason than sheer dumb luck and gracious officiating.
      If Western Michigan is a cream-puff, it’s the first one we have so far this season. Someone reported that ND has faced the 7th most difficult schedule in the nation so far this season.
      Tressel would NEVER consider starting a season with a schedule like we did.
      Back when Ara and Devine were coaching, ND tried to set up a home and home series with Ohio St. but Woody Hayes would have none of it. He never said why, but a lot of people suspected that he felt that Michign and ND were too much in one season for his team.
      That’s Buckeye thinking.
      Some things never change.
      Go Irish! (and Wisconsin)

      1. Totally right on! ND isn’t overlooking the Broncos and this isn’t some kind of trip game. The Irish know they have to re-establish themselves and that means overlooking nothing. No Lou Holtz team ever coasted. They pounded opponents until the starters got a break and the 2nd and 3rd string came in. That’s what this team needs to do. They may or may not, but Kelly will have them much more focused on what they need to do rather than worrying about the Broncos.

      2. shazamrock

        you are so right

        SO RIGHT
        Buckeye thinking–this week they were talking about the “tough schedule” on the air-I don’t know why I listen because it pisses me off and yet I’m simultaneously amused.
        ALWAYS the warm-ups then one tough non-conference game ( not every year) and then conference schedule begins with the fluff, the flakes from the apple pie crust and then a challenge or two and in the past decade killing Michigan. Yeah–tough schedule and most years it is 8 at home ( when they won their “title” in 02 -and glad they beat the cocaines cuz everybody hates them-they had 9 at home out of 13 with such STELLAR opponets as Kent and Toledo and San Jose St. in October ) eeewwwwwww
        yeah ND in the 80’s against this team –under Holtz would have been a WIN for sure.
        Oh well-someday vengeance will be ours)

        BTW, after the Wisconsin thrashing there was two pages of photos in the Sunday Columbus Dispatch. ( THERE ARE USUALLY 4-8 pages EVEN DESPITE THE DISTANCE AND LATE TIME–don’t buy the crap “it’s too late for printing) huhh—via technology they just didn’t want to admit they finally had what was coming to them –an ASS kicking –
        oh well
        this is an Irish site-just had to fill in about cowlumbus cuz I live here great job and all but NEVEER EVER a buckeye fan

      3. I feel sorry for you living in Columbus. OSU fans are the most delusional fans in football. They live in a world that I don’t understand.

  156. As much as I hope it’s a blowout win (and this program needs one) Do you not see the typical ND make’s it close with there own errors and misfortunes to make it close in the end where the D has to stand tall again?

  157. just saw a bit on by ivan maisel and how long-term dynasties are on the decline. i disagree and think this is simply an over-reaction to losses by florida, texas, usc, and bama. bama could be on their way to a one-loss national championship, florida and texas are struggling mainly b/c of inexperienced qbs (like us) and usc is suffering from a litany of issues from sanctions to a new coach.

    just look at the last 10 national champs, all big names, all could be considered a dynasty at some point over the past 20 years.

    we have 2 more years with crist to make something special happen and begin nd’s progression back into ‘dynasty’ consideration from the depths of the early 90s.

    a blowout sat will be one-step in the right direction.

    go irish!

    1. Agreed, just because Texas and FL doesn’t mean they aren’t a dynasty anymore. I think being a dynasty is averaging 10 wins a year for a decade and getting 1-2 national titles in there. I would take that any day of the week.

      1. Poz,

        You know those schools have too much talent, too much coaching, and too much money to be kept down for very long.
        I will say that seeing the SEC
        win the the title year after year was getting boring for us outside the conference.
        I don’t think I could have taken another Urban Meyer/Tim Tebow story.
        Obviously ND isn’t going to play in the title game, but I am pulling for teams Like Boise St, TCU, Stanford, and Mich. St.
        A little fresh air is always good.

    2. I thought that article was stupid, period.

      It seems Ivan needed filler and making up a bunch of crap about dynasties was it. We had a dynasty in the 40s, Oklahoma in the 50s, and ( choking on it ) Miami in the 80s.

      Other than that, Florida is the closest this decade. USC cheated so their entire tenure under Pete the Cheat is void.

      UCLA in college hoops under Wooden.

      The Celtics in the 60s.

      The Packers in the 60s

      The Steelers in the 70s

      The Niners in the 80s

      Ivan is trying to redefine the word just to fill space.
      Truly idiotic.

      1. C-Dog,

        Did you happen to read the story over at SI, about the agent (Josh Luchs) who claims he paid cash to college players over the years in a
        attempt that they retain him as their agent when they turned pro?
        I know it’s only one man’s view, but I would be interested in your thoughts on the matter.

      2. Shazamrock,
        This guy might get crucified, but he also might blow open a very corrupt system. I hope between USC, a few others, and now this revelation, that very soon the system crumbles.

        Schoold like ND, Northwestern, the Ivy LEagues, Stanford, Vanderbilt and a few others should be the norm not the exception. We’re not educating these athletes in America and that is the real scandal. It is because not only do very few make the Pros, but most pro athletes go bankrupt, so they’ve been used like slaves and cast away in middle age or earlier. Many more kids divert their attention from schoolwork because the false prospect of being a famous athlete has become the life motivator. Sports are backyard kids games. Sports should teach life skills. Sports are not an end in and of themselves.

        Realizing that revolution is never more than a remote possbility unless people can’t eat, I favor a more realistic solution.

        First, have the parents or guardians of prospective football players provide a financial aid form and offer stipends based on need. Many of these student athletes come from distressed financial backgrounds. There are too many incidentals not to allow them some small stipend.

        BUT more importantly, the NFL should create a developmental league. This league would be for athletes who in no way can make college standards or who just aren’t ready yet for college, but who may be future NFL material. Every player in this league automatically gets a scholarship kind of like a GI Bill. They must merit acceptance to some junior college or university, but it will be paid for by the NFL. This is offered regardless of whether they makeit to the NFL or not. While in developmental league, they are taught basic personal finance, and some other life skills courses to be prepared to live independently no matter what they choose to do.
        The teams would exist in small to midsized cities surrounding the home franchise. Tix would be reasonable and salaries would be low. No free agency. Imaging the good will and fan support for the home franchise by building local farm team fan bases.

        What does that leave for the NCAA. Well of course there is plenty of talent that would still want a college education. Look at Kirk Cousins at MSU. Andrew Luck is no dummy, nor is our own Chris Stewart, or even Michael Floyd. High school players are showing their ability to dazzle with hire wire plays, so the excitement would still be there. I root rabidly for Notre Dame, because it’s Notre Dame, not because every player will be on the field on Sunday.

        I’d like to see it all cleaned up and more like it was when the “student” in student athlete really meant something. Will sports ever be totally clean where there’s money invovled, no. But let’s push for a day when the kids aren’t blatantly used, abused, and discarded so all these vampires can make a buck.

  158. Watching the replay of the ND – Pitt game – 2nd qtr one hand catch by Floyd in the endzone confirms our initial thoughts that it was indeed a catch. Left foot down before knee hit. Should have been 24-3 at half. Big Ten refs suck!

    Bottom line – this team is definitely better than last year. Certainly things to clean up but BK is the right man for sure without a doubt! Love the newly re-found fire on the sidelines! THis team is getting better and better. A lot to look forward to. Bout damn time!! Go with what got you the job BK and GO IRISH!!!

    1. i posted something a couple days ago regarding this one. i think the refs ruled it incomplete because the ball squirted out after he hit the ground. it shouldn’t matter what happens once he is out of bounds (as long as in bounds with control) and wondered if ncaa has a rule similar to the nfl regarding controlling the ball to the ground…

      1. It wasn’t a catch. He never established possession. If that was ruled a TD against us we would all be going ballastic at this point. They were Big East refs anyhow. Crying about refs is useless, it all evens out.

      2. Normally I agree, Poz.

        But there have been some blatant and patterned calls against us. Using the Big East refs is a mistake. I’m half serious when I say we need to get the Debartolos involved. They speak the language of the East coast. Unless we’re willing to engage in the refereee issue like Tony Saprano would, the Big East will not respect us and will do what it takes to keep Notre Dame from upstaging their teams.

        This was even mentioned on the Westwood One broadcast.

        Notre Dame should enlist MAC refs, or Conference USA refs. The game is just about as fast and physical so those refs are competent. They have nothing to gain and should be able to guarantee impartiality.

        I’ve seen too many games in the last 5 years where Notre Dame isn’t allowed to hit like the other team, isn’t allowed to block like the other team. The Stanford game and now the Pitt game have seen major issues with referees. I am not arguing with the Floyd non catch in the 2nd qarter. But I am arguing with the Riddick pass interference that was just good blocking. I am arguing with the non call when Pitt’s QB spiked the ball in his own endzone. I’m also arguing the non offsides call when Stanford’s LB was practically behind Crist when the ball was snapped and the non face mask when Gray was pulled down by a Stanford player causing a hamstring injury.

        I’ve seen enough. New refs or the students and fans should storm the field.

  159. Tough losing rudolph he will be missed Time for eifert ragone and maybe golic to step in we will miss him blocking and in the redzone most of all glad we run the spread little less tough losing a te in that offence rather then a more normal offence get well rudolph hope to see you next year back at ND

  160. Dave Casper, Irv Smith, Ken MacAfee, Derek Brown, Tony Hunter,Mark Bavarro,
    Anthony Fassano, John Carlson, and Kyle Rudolph.
    I really enjoy my ND tight ends. I have seen most of these guys play. The ones I haven’t, I’ve watched on highlight reels. All of them are acceptional. All have left their mark on Notre Dame football.
    But if I had to pick the best of the bunch, Kyle Rudolph hands down.
    That 95 yard TD catch deep over the middle agianst Michigan in week two says it all.
    Great moves, terrific speed, excellent hands. Strong, powerful, talented, tough, a good blocker, and smart. He has it all.
    I think, prior to yesterday, He was off to the NFL after this year.
    Now, perhaps, as ND fans, we will be fortunet enough to see him play another year here.
    In past years, some ND fans might be concerned that the team might have a let down this week agianst a team like Western Michigan. But I don’t think that will be a problem. We just lost one of our very best players.
    Dayne Crist relied heavily on Rudolph, as did the coaches and the team. Opposing teams designed their defense in an attempt to take him out of the game.
    Maybe someone will step up in his place. Maybe instead of 3 wide recievers and a tight end, Kelly goes with 4 wide outs. Maybe Kelly elects to run the ball more. Maybe some players get a second chance in Rudolph’s absents,
    and make the most of their new found oppertunety. Maybe the team realizes the enormity of the loss of a Kyle Rudolph and pulls together.
    Maybe in the heart wrenching loss of a great player like Kyle Rudolph, a silver lining is waiting to be found.

    1. Shaz: Kyle Rudolph is an excellent tight end, and he is Dayne’s room mate and probably best friend. When in doubt, Dayne threw to Kyle when other guys were open. This may benefit the team in the long rung as he needs to go elsewhere, and Kyle will come back next year to prove he is not injury prone and to get his stock up for the draft. I am sorry for Kyle, but he needs the repair and rest. He also needs to finish his degree so if this happens in the NFL he will be able to have a life after football.

      1. Interesting thought about how Dayne will have to scan the field more now that Kyle is out for the season.

        I sure hope he comes back next year.

  161. According to ESPN, Jordan Prestwood has de-committed from ND. That’s really bad news for our efforts to build up the trenches at ND. Sorry to break the bad news. Perhaps we can still sign this kid in the end.

  162. I hate the advertiesment on this web page for the “T.OCHO show.
    Why are they holding up two fingers? Is that how many catches they have this year or some kind of gang sign?
    I’d rather watch troy and bruce on swamp people. At least they do something productive. Did ya see em git ol big head? dat dar one angry ol gata!

  163. special teams – the snap back to the punter is too slow. i think pitt saw this on film and going for a block was part of the game plan. the long snapper needs to work on his zip!

  164. BK has made a lot of good decisions and changes, but I have to wonder about
    the handling of Kyle Rudolph. Rudolph clearly looked hamperd from the start of the Pitt Game. BK tried to occasionally rest him here and there by going with Ragone. But it was obvious to anyone watching that Rudolph wasn’t anywhere near 100%. If it is obvious to the people watching on TV,and the guys calling the game for NBC, it has to be obvious to the coaches and trainers. Kelly said just the other day that at this time of year that players have to learn to play through bumps and bruises.
    No problem there, as long as that’s all they are, bumps and bruises.
    A hamstring tearing from the bone sounds like more than a bump or a bruise.
    I sure hope for everyone involved that Rudolph comes back completly from this.
    I sure enjoyed watching him. Thanks for all the great plays this year.

    1. Shaz-man – A hamstring injury will haunt a player all year especially when it happens close to the start of the season in the fall. Its a nagging injury like JC’s turf toe. This one however is pretty serious. I doubt very much that Rudolph will be back next year. I feel bad for him but give him credit for playing through. Its a rough sport – takes a toll on many. Ragone will have to kick it up a notch. Still have many threats on offense TJ Jones – Floyd – Riddick and now Ragone. Next man in and best wishes to Kyle. GO IRISH!

  165. Rudolph is going to get plenty of rest. We just lost him for the season to a hamstring injury. Ragogne or Eifert better step up their game

    1. Eifert injured his shoulder 2 weeks ago and has dnoe little sense. We’re already down to the third string TE and BK just confirmed that Welch will stay on the scout team.


    2. Well, good news is he will most likely be coming back next year. That’s a pretty tarnished silver lining, but I’ll take it.

  166. Western Michigan 2-3. They scored over 40 in their two wins, and gave up over 30 in their 3 losses. Like most teams, turn-overs are a major factor.
    When they commit them, they lose. When they get them, they win. They go for the ball a lot on running plays, and aren’t afraid to take chances and jump routes in pass defense. This is especially true with QB’s that stare down recievers.(are you listening Dayne Crist?) In their last game agianst Ball St. they benefitted from 5 turnovers. They also pulled off a fake field goal by allowing the kicker (John Potter) who is a pretty decent runner, to take a toss from the holder and run it in from 8 yards out.
    They aren’t afraid to put the ball up. Passing attempts over the last 5 games are: 53,36,64,35,& 30. They have given up at least 2 sacks a game and have given up a total of 15 so far this year. They don’t seem to have a premiere runner, but rush the ball by committee using the QB, and 2 or 3 halfbacks.
    Their defense gave up 239 yards rushing agianst Ball St. in their last game. In their opener agianst Mich.St, State running backs Bell and Baker combined for 258 of the 297 total rushing yards allowed.
    Idaho completed 30 out of 50 for 380 yards passing in a 33-13 win in week 4
    What should we exspect from the Irish this week?

    1. Western should be an easy win – it might really give a clue as to where this team is. Western’s schedule has been weak so not much to look on there – should get a look at some backups – let’s give Reese a shot

      1. I’m sorry but there is no such thing as an easy win. No way, no chance, no how.

        We should win but it will be because we grind it out and make Western Michigan feel some agony.

        If we win, it won’t be because they’re necessarily inferior. We have to prove that we’re the better football team.

  167. Late in the game when the Pitt quarterback grounded the ball in the endzone to prevent a sack why wasn’t that called a 2 point touchback?

  168. does anyone know if ncaa has the nfl rule of controlling the ball after contact with the ground? i didn’t know about it until the detroit debacle a couple weeks ago.

    i thought floyd had possession with one foot in, then lost possession only after hitting the ground. without the aforementioned rule, it shouldn’t matter if he drops the ball after he lands out of bounds…hell of a catch, and the offensive pass interference play really showed how fast floyd is. sometimes tall players have a tendency to look slower, but he was gaining on pitt’s secondary

  169. “North Carolina star defensive tackle Marvin Austin was kicked off the football team Monday and the school said the NCAA has declared receiver Greg Little and defensive end Robert Quinn permanently ineligible.”

    If I remember correctly, Little was a signing day defector from ND to UNC and we were also in the mix for Austin but lost him to UNC. Too bad, so sad, UNC.

  170. I hate to complain about refs, but need to on this one, just like everyone else. I didn’t see it but heard Don Cricqui talking about it. I’ve never heard him so upset. The bogus offensive pass interference on Riddick taking back Floyd’s tuouchdown and then the no call on intentional grounding. I wish the fans would have swept up those Big East refs and taken them to a place of no return. Maybe instead of buying us buildings, the Debartolos need to flex some muscle on these guys.

    Otherwise, the Defense is getting better and just needs to eliminate the couple of plays getting burned. I also will hammer this again and again, why not switch your inside and outside linebackers to send Teo in on a blitz on passsing downs once or twice a game. They need more pressure on the QB and until Teo learns to cover, they need to play to his strengths.

    The offense needs a more killer attitude. Kelly should tell the offense they might need to refresher to his CAMP KELLY if they don’t start playing for 60 minutes. They still look like they get complacent. And more runnign please. MSU put up oveer 250 yards against the Wolverines. There’s your ballgame.

    Well we should count on wins against everyone until Utah. USC looks like an opportunity, especially as Kiffin puts more and more of his mark on that team.

    1. Switching linebacker spots is more daunting then it sounds. The reads are different, the pass drops are different and the keys are different. Also, the difference between playing in the middle vs playing in space is a huge physical and mental gap. My guess is that the coaching time needed to dedicate to switching players around would be a waste of time. Remember, Manti is just in his second year and is still learning. He has great potential but still misses way too many tackles. I agree they need more pressure on the QB, who doesn’t but ND’s defensive philosophy is to keep things in front of them and make people sustain drives. Classic bend but don’t break or the same philosophy teams that run the Tampa 2 exhibit.

      1. POZ,
        I’m only talking about maybe 2 to 4 times in the game. I envision putting Teo in more or less a defensive end position and just sending him in. The outside linebackers start pinched in, but are dropping back into zone coverage.
        I’m thinking it’s just a way to put heat on a QB and have your better cover LBs out there. Trust me, I want TEO to learn coverage, but he’s like a doberman that’s been given the kill command when he’s rushing in on the QB. I think the defense could confuse a QB who thinks he can pass across our middle against Teo and Calebrese, only to find out one or two of those guys are hunting him down in his own back field and the LBs in the middle, actually can cover the guy coming across underneath.

    2. Refs sucked that game period. I forget who intercepted for ND in the 4th but he clearly didnt have the ball and held it up after picking it from between his legs which would have been a turnover for the Irish had the Moustache not challanged.

    3. I agree on almost all counts – the grounding call ND got screwed by the wording of the rule – there was a receiver right where the ball hit the ground – doesn’t matter if he was looking at it – he was there – so no grounding – a lot of questions able calls in every game – we ahve to live with it

      1. Don’t forget the calls in the Stanford game. A non call for an obvious facemask and a non call for an offsides that was visible in Mishawaka.

  171. The Crowd!! Massive state schools with 50 jigawatt tailgating and 90 to 100K seat stadiums VS. Small, midwestern Catholic Univ. with respectful, tradition rich fan base. It will nearly never be comparing apples to apples unless you are talking about 2 years from now when WE CRUSH U$C IN THE FINAL HOME GAME TO SOLIDIFY OUR INVITE TO THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME! Yeah, maybe then it changes a little.
    By the way, night games won’t happen under the current NBC contract. ABC/ESPN “family of networks” has the right to televise the later time slots (I think). So unless we are winning (a lot) or playing someone significant, probably won’t happen, at least not nationally.

    1. Seamus05:

      It’s not like Notre Dame Stadium is small. It holds 80,795 people. Its the 8th largest stadium in the country. I dont understand what “tradition rich fan base” actually means either. Will you explain this for me? Notre Dame fans can be loud, cheerful, and stand while still being respectful.

      1. Neither do I. Being respectful and being loud and energetic are not mutually exclusive. It’s quite possible to be both, and ND crowds used to be so. Quiet and boring is not “tradition rich” or respectful. It’s weak and useless.

      2. Here’s a thought.
        The idea is to get the fans fired up and involved right?
        Mount a large electricial lighted graph, that measures and displays the sound levels inside the stadium. Put it on a chassis with wheels. This way it can be pulled out onto the field at various times (like at the beginning when the team runs out of the tunnell or during TV time outs) Being on wheels it’s not permently mounted on the stadium. It can also be moved around to different sections of the stadiums. This will create a competion within the stadium, the fans, and the various sections of the stadium.
        (would you want to be “called out” and Identified as the “weak” section?)
        If the noise is pushed high enough, long enough, it sets off a loud airhorn much like the old pipe organ that was used at Blackhawk games at the Chicago stadium.
        Hit the hightest level and set off the horn,a dazeling light show, and maybe a cloud of smoke.
        At BC, when we faced third down, they would ring some dumb tower bell. How lame is that.
        I remember that pipe organ at the Hawk games. That thing was awesome!
        I could just see a visiting team, call time out late in the game, the out come down to a final play. Their team gathers aroung their coach. Parked behind their bench is the “Irish Riot”, with fans screaming, and that thing going off, their player’s would never hear their own coach. Talk about a home field advantage!

  172. Irish played a ton better and executed a ton better when they go to a more fast paced no huddle. I believe this is what they practice and they need to do this throughout the game. They appeared to be a totally different team when they moved fast on offense.

    Dropped passes need to be dealt with like fumbles. You put the ball on the ground you sit down. Crist still needs to stop telegraphing his throws – a couple scary ones where anyone watching knew where it was going and almost got picked twice!

    Also most annoyed at the call by Kelly to review the “fumble on the play” when Pitt CLEARLY intentionally grounded the ball in the 4th quarter. You make the call to review intentional grounding! I could not believe the refs did not call that when Pitt threw it into the offensive linemans back to avoid the safety! Major screw up on Kellys part asking for a fumble review when it was clearly an intentional grounding pass.

    I did however win my usual $5 when I bet my buddy Pitt would get the ball back when ND had it w/ less than 3 minutes remaining. YOU RUN THE BALL AND RUN OUT THE CLOCK! Especially after picking up 6 yrs on a rush prior to that. ND has not been able to close the door behind them for many many years. That was the most frustrating thing to watch for me. Refs sucked for both teams throughout the game. A win – but quite ugly all the same but some more progress on the part of the Irish.

    1. You can’t review intentional grounding by rule. Therefore, he had to ask to review if the ball hit an offensive lineman in the end zone which would have counted as a safety. Intentional grounding is a judgment call like interference which you can’t review.

      1. So is that the rule? That judgement call penalties can’t be reviewed? I always wondered why you could challenge to see if 12 men were on the field but you couldn’t challenge the intentional grounding call.

      2. so a fumble isnt a judgement call also? I dont buy that – I think you can call for a review of an intentional grounding…

  173. the problem is money talks. the elderly are the big donors and the last thing the administration wants to do is piss off the donors. this is complete speculation, but i suspect it is not far from the truth.

    i went to the independence bowl down south against LSU in 97. the LSU fans were pretty obnoxious, a couple of them were thrown out for throwing ice at notredame fans. but in southbend people are getting thrown out for standing? seems pretty absurd. i’m not sure where my seats are this weekend but i will be standing a majority of the game and yelling.

    go irish!

    1. ted, it’s up to fans like you!
      I love ND stadium. Even with the upgades it still has that old stadium charm and rich tradition.
      In the days before the modern sports stadium, ND and their fans gave the home team a great advantage.
      We need to get back to those traditional standards.
      I can think of nothing worst than a Jumbo-tron, parked at opposet ends of ND stadium, telling the fans to stand up and cheer!
      We don’t want that. We don’t need that. If the team can make an effort to improve, so can our fans!

      1. The traditions of a campus stadium are wonderful and I really enjoy ND Stadium.

        But have you seen Lincoln, when the players leave the locker room to get on the field of the stadium? It’s amazing. It’s so loud and fun and exciting and – unreal. The same is true at Clemson, as players head into the stadium – and fans cheer on by watching the jumbotron. It’s loud and nutty and crazy-fun.

        The same is true at many of these stadiums all over the country. Jumbotrons do provide a different view, too, for fans in the nosebleeds. I know the thought of one terrifies traditionalists but, well, that train left the station. So many schools use the big screen and players love the idea of it as well. . . .

      2. teo,

        The Link is for the Pro’s and
        Clemson(which is 10 minutes down the road from where I work)is a far, far, cry from ND. Take my word on that!
        Notre Dame Stadium is much like Fenway park or Wrigley Field. (ever hear the term “If these walls could talk”?)
        They bring you back to your roots, they remember history, and perpetuate tradition, rivalry, excellance in all we do, and above all
        All worth attributes in today’s modern world and what makes college football special.
        I’m not agianst progress, but at what cost?
        JDH just took his son to his first ND game. In a stadium vertually identical to the one he saw his first ND game in, and perhaps the same stadium as his father before him. I doubt that he or his son would have wanted it any other way.
        I have seen Duke play home basketball games in their arena. It’s just four walls and a roof. Nothing special.
        It’s the people, the students, the fans, that make that building special.
        As it should be with ND and those fortunet few lucky enough to have gained addmission to the house that Rockne built.

      3. I don’t see where a few upgrades here and there are going to spoil tradition. A few years back when they wanted to put lights up in wrigley field you (everyone in Chicago) thought the world was coming to and end. 90 years of day baseball. And now? Doesn’t really matter that much.

        You can’t get any more of a shrine than Yankee stadium. They built a brand spanking new one. It might not be the house that Ruth built anymore but it’s still Yankee stadium.
        It’s the YANKEES! Just like Notre Dame will always be Notre Dame!

        You said it all Shazam, “it’s the people, the students, the fans, that make that building special”

        It will always be the house that Rockne built even with upgrades, but more importantly even if they built a new one in the next 100 years, it will always be NOTRE DAME STADIUM and that my friend sends chills up my spine.

      4. Even though Wrigley has lights, the ball club still adheres to it’s tradition by playing more day ballgames than anyone else. Yet I think they sold part of their soul by allowing advertising on the outfield utility doors.
        While Yankee Stadium is new, they kept the same facade, exterior look, trimmed with flag poles. It looks a lot like the old Yankee stadium, until you actually enter the place.
        ND stadium, even though the look on the exterior has changed just slightly, and seating was exspanded, the interior and the field it’s self remains very much the same with it’s simplistic paint design, original tunnel,
        and no frills scoreboards.
        It gives one a sence of going back in time. ND Stadium, whether you realize it or not, induces one to remember the great players, coaches teams, and games of season’s past.
        It was built with a single pourpose in mind… Football, ND football, and only ND football.
        It’s not some giant brick billboard, to be plasterd
        with signs and advertising.
        It’s a histroical landmark.
        It’s PURE.
        In the year 2010, there are few truely PURE places left in our world.
        I would like to think that ND stadium is still one of them.
        Don’t sell our identity, our soul, for a little bit of flash, or a few extra advertising bucks.

      5. I just don’t see how upgrading the stadium is selling our identity and our soul. I believe you can still keep that historical look and still modernize.

        What happened to “it’s the people, the students, the fans, that make that building special” That is absolutely spot-on right.

        Sooner or later we all have to change with the times. I’m NOT saying tear down the nostalgia. Just a few upgrades that the people deserve.

        You’re right, in 2010 there are truely a few places left that are PURE, but if we are going to compete academically, socially and in sports we have to keep up or society will leave us standing still.

      6. No doubt that you have keep up to be competitive attendence wise as well as with recruiting. But where do you draw the line?
        Keeping the historical look and still modernize. A slippery slope for sure.
        Just because our stadium isn’t the newest, bigest, or the most technology advanced, doesn’t mean our fans can’t make it a very difficult place for visiting teams.

      7. I love the nostalgia of Notre Dame Stadium as much as everyone else. But for the life of me I don’t get everyone’s emphatic disapproval of a having a big tv in the Stadium.

        Maybe we should take down the lights too… that way it really would be like going to a game in the 1890’s.

        Jumbotrons get people into the games by flashing big hits from Teo, key goal-line stands, interceptions and 80 yrd TD’s from our receivers.

        Clearly ND needs to re-evaluate their position in my mind. Our end zones should be deafening when an opposing offense is trying to score. We are the 13th man… The fans in stands can have an impact on the game… Why not provide the fans with something that pulls us into the game even more?

      8. I think I agree. There is something special about Notre Dame Stadium. There will always be something special about Notre Dame Stadium.

        The same uniqueness will be there if games are played with a well designed Jumbotron and fans can see the game from a different angle from time to time.

      9. As you can tell, I’m not a big supporter of the Jumbotron at ND stadium, but in it’s defense, for everyone in the stadium, including the Ref’s, a little replay action for everyone to see might actually get us better game called by the officials.
        (especially since we don’t have our own officiating crew)

      10. Yeah, a jumbotron showing blatantly blown calls might fire up the fans to threaten the officials. A little Irish intimidation might straighten those guys out. Of course a few Irish fists could do it too. If seeing the replay would have caused the fans to riot I’d have been proud.

      11. When did they renovate ND Stadium? Wasn’t it in the 90’s?

        Acknowledging the absolute importance of keeping Notre Dame Stadium as “pure” as the day she fielded her first home game when Knute stepped out of the tunnel is paramount. These tradition’s that ND and we as fans have kept alive all this time makes a visit to South Bend special beyond what I could put into words. You can feel the heritage, spirituality, history and honor drip from your mouth like honey. It’s incredible!

        With that in mind the renovation must have had people falling out of cardiac arrest. Make it bigger…you say? If Rockne wanted the stadium to hold 80,000+ he would drawn her up that way.

        The architects and engineers who tackled the renovation must have known how special that field is to us… to the players and the former players who’s blood and sweat gave us 11 National Championships.

        To their credit they managed to effectively keep the field and tunnel the same. They added a concrete skin around the stadium being sure that the foundation that Rockne sketched was still visible for us as reminder of our honored history.

        However, the argument of whether we should add a couple of jumbotrons seem kind of petty… Why? Because when ND decided to increase the size of the stadium they hid one of our most prized landmarks.

        Touchdown Jesus!

        We all still know he’s there. He’s still reaching out to the players, coaches and us as fans. However now, we feel him instead of being able to see him. And all of have come to deal with it.

        As far as I’m concerned ND needs to bring us into the game. It MUST be loud! If a jumbotron can bring us into the game, get us off our seats, and open the flood waters of deafening screaming…..then that’s what ND should do.

        After all, just because we add a few pleasantries to the stadium…it doesn’t change that the field has been soaked in the history of our past!

      12. The problem is that ND Stadium is considered to be a “Cathedral to college football.” While we love our traditions and take pride in that moniker, other teams notice that our fans act more like they are in a cathedral than a football stadium. And they are not intimidated.

        I know that the elderly boosters paid for the stadium remodel. And that the tickets are so high that those are the types of folks you are gonna get in their. But, there has to be some middle ground. More student seating, more night games, something. The argument that the fans just need better performance to cheer for has limited merit, in my opinion. The 2005 Bush Push game was pretty darn loud, signalling support for that contention. But, when you consider that a quiet stadium takes away the home field advantage, that the incessant commercial breaks breaks stride and that a team feeds off the energy of the crowd…well, the reasoning gets circular. Bring back the awe and fear of playing in the House that Rockne built and the team might just play up to those expectations. To “wake up the echoes,” the fans have to “shake down the thunder.”

        Just my humble opinion.


  174. what has happened to RObert Hughes running the ball ? I thought he would be our runner down in the red zone, when we needed a tough run made. I also thought he would be a good pound the line runner, to wear out the opposition, and enable the speed runners a chance to break a long run later in the game.

  175. It’s been a few years since I have been to an ND game, but I agree that the crowd factor doesn’t really work in our factor for home games. The environment is way too calm. To further this point, the next time you are watching an ND game on tv, just switch to CBS for a second to compare it to any SEC game. There is a night and day difference in terms of crowd noise and energy. How much difference does this make…that’s up for debate.

    Can someone please explain to me, why ND doesn’t do night games anymore? I remember growing up (in the late 80’s) and watching night games on TV, and it always seemed like the players fed off that energy in the stadium. Just from a fan’s perspective, those games were really fun to watch.

    1. John, you’re right about CBS and the SEC. It IS like night and day. In my opionin night games will not cut it as far as noise and energy. A great (winning) team with great athletes will do the trick. I live in Los Angeles and it does not get any more laid back. Just go to a Laker game now and it’s high energy.

      You have to win on a consistent basis for the fans to react. Right now I believe we’re just waiting for something bad to happen. We’re playing not to lose instead of going out and kill oponents.

      Hopefully BK can change this around in the next few years and I truly believe ND stadium will be as loud as the top dogs.

      1. Jud is exactly right. As I said before- ND fans have been groomed for years to expect to lose. I’m not being negative; I’m simply stating an opinion I can back up here. How many times in the past 5 years have we lost games in which we had substantial leads? How many games were lost in the 4th quarter? MANY! The Pitt game on Saturday was a case of, “Here we go again.” Sorry but it’s true.

        These feelings will change when ND Football gives us a reason to do so. That time will come, IMO.

        The old people factor is secondary. Material, but secondary.

    2. I agree with you, Jud. A great team with great athletes that destroys an opponent – or each opponent – week in and week out will generate a lot of enthusiasm. And, Notre Dame hasn’t had one of these teams in a decade and a half. So, that’s given the crowd of old timers 15 years to wonder when we’re going to blow a lead, miss a tackle and etc.

      One final point: NBC is awful for the crowd. The commercials are far too frequent and too long. Games last forever and the momentum is often destroyed by a commercial. I know that others have made this point but I thought I’d restate it for emphasis.

      1. Its true about NBC. I am so sick of the score, commercial, kickoff, commercial format. I have lost all entusiasm sitting at home waiting the 6 minutes since anything really happened.

      2. Teo:

        Everything you say week after week is right on the money.
        Your insight is spot on.
        I agree with you 100%.
        A decade and a half is a long time ( and the heckling our family gets while we live in Columbus-is getting very old while o. state plays such powers as E.Mich and the scrimmage season minus one game every sept. uggh)

        As for your final point-the NBC commentators and the venue is close to a grad school lecture; predictable, review from previous lesson, flow chart, where we are going, questions? and done.

        I have noticed ( and timed) away games going much faster than this. You know, if the game is over before the time slot they could always switch to an NBC studio show or interview some of the fans around campus–after a win while getting classic shots of aesthetic beauty in Notre Dame’s campus.
        Just a thought.
        But YOUR thoughts-spot on EVERY TIME.
        Ever think about applying for the NBC job??
        Stranger things have happened!

  176. Cierre Continues to stop his feet(looking to cut) when running but i did feel he got more confidence as he got more carries… and did show signs of improvement… AA is what he looks like. he his a solid Running, Receiving and BLocking back. I am still waiting for the future stud “Jonas” once he gets his big break and gets confidence..

    The offense is either very good or very bad…. this game should have been over in the 3rd qrt. but b/c of inconsistencies we were one play away from losing that game…

  177. I don’t care if Ragone makes that catch or not when we needed a 1st down. Kelly had 2nd and 4 with 2 plays to run the ball to pick up the 1st down plus make Pitt. use up their last 2 timeouts. If we get the 1st down then the game is over. By throwing the ball you take the chance for incomplete passes and not much time running off the clock and Pitt. not having to use their timeouts and that is exactly what happened. If Pitt. would have scored after that, the loss would have been Kelley’s fault. IMO that was very stupid play calling. Run the damn ball and make them use their timeouts.

    1. I agree the smarter play on 2nd down would have been a handoff to AA or Hughes. But c’mon, that pass was a $#*ing cherry. That should never be dropped, ever. If Ragone had not butchered it, we’d not be having this conversation. But I hear you- the results of his drop were almost devastating keeping the ball on ground would have been wiser.

    2. Ok good point – but how realiable has the ground game been in trying to pick up crucial yards – remember crist and fourth and a short one – power running game still not relaibale – and if second down gets stuffed then third down is tougher – pas should have been caught – passes like that – same as a running play

      1. cousin,
        Your comments are accurate but they are about PAST games. The running game was clicking just fine against Pitt, the game at hand. During the game, you don’t rehash what’s happened 2 or 3+ games ago, necessarily. You play to your strengths THAT DAY. Allen & Co. were doing just fine…

      2. really – for the game AA gained only 56 yards and average only a little over 4 yards a carry – for the game the team gained only 87 yards with an average carry of less than 3 – most of those yards early in the game – so the power game still not reliable

  178. Anyone see the BCS rankings today?
    How Ohio St is number one is totally perplexing.
    They have wins over Marshall, Ohio U, Illinois, Indiana, Eastern Michigan, and Miami Fl.
    If ND was 6-0, with the same opponents, we would have been ridiculed right out of South Bend with a opening schedule like that.
    Oklahoma is 6th. They beat Utah St, Florida St., Air Force, Cincinnati,and Texas.
    LSU, 6-0 Beat North Carolina, Vandy, Miss.St., W.Virgina, Tennessee, and Florida. (The Mad-hatter has been more lucky that good, but 6-0 is 6-0!)
    I just don’t get it.

    1. Don’t worry Shazam. It’s always the same story for Ohio State. They, along with the SEC, are the little darlings of ESPN/ABC. OSU will have their fun dominating the Big 10, then get SMOKED in post-season play. The rankings matter not…

      1. JDH,

        I forget who mentioned it, but they said the first rankings shouldn’t come out until at least after the fourth game of the season.
        That would get rid of some of these september pillow fights,
        and teams getting ranked based on last year’s results.
        They always talk about the damn BCS computer. It doesn’t take a computer to realize there are more than a few teams that have played a tougher schedule than Ohio St.
        I would like to believe that mid-season rankings don’t matter, but I think it does in terms of recruiting and TV Ratings.

      2. I hear ya- I was saying that “the rankings matter not” as it pertains to Ohio State. Because they are so predictable! Go undefeated or 9-1, get DESTROYED in a major bowl, graduate 49% of their seniors and wait until next year…

        Michigan State is legit though, obviously. It makes the loss to then that much more painful! We are so close to being a 5-1 team right now….

        Crist plays for 4 qtrs. against U of M. Our defender doesn’t fall on his ass / the officials actually call a delay of game and not give MSU and extra second….

        But, as I keep saying, I just want to see week to week improvement. Consistency on offense is the key right now…we have too many weapons to be so unpredictable…

      3. I don’t know why some people here expected a national championship this year from ND.
        With a new coach, a new offense, a switch to 3-4 defense.
        Were people expecting miracles?
        Some people are just unrealistic I guess.

        I mean, if Crist played the whole game against Michigan, ND wins that game. They should have beat MSU.
        ND very easily could have been 5-1. Just a little bad luck.

        The Stanford game is the only game where ND was completely overwhelmed.

    2. It’s where the team starts the season that’s important. Ohio State began the season ranked #2, while Oklahoma was around #8. Sure, Oregon leaped over Boise State a few weeks ago after beating Stanford, but Oklahoma and LSU will have to wait for some losses by higher ranked teams to move up. I agree that it’s all about perception at the beginning. That being said, Ohio State is a pretty strong team so there’s really no reason for the voters to downgrade them in any substantial way right now.

    3. Never fear, Jeff Sagarin’s USA Today Elo Chess rankings (used for BCS purposes) have ohio state at # 23. The u did handle Indiana much better than Michigan.

    4. I live in Columbus and I concur with the bucks being
      it would be nice to have a scrimmage schedule before the season begins-osu media here has the gull and guts to say
      Notre Dame is playing a creampuff this week ( as they do so much of the time)
      seriously–this is what is on the radio here–it is sick and twisted–
      they will not win out
      LSU SEC anybody but Miami cocaines and the bucks–
      with the easy schedules year after year

    1. Sal,

      Thanks for brightening my day!

      But is that hat a XXXLG?

      It looks too small for such a freakish, bulbulus, melonlike, hughmungus pumpkin head.

  179. I agree with your game analysis Frank.
    Offense is still a work in progress. At times they seem unstoppable and others just plane stink. DC is the key. He has three games to work on his timing because the UTAH game is going to be huge.

    Kyle is hurt and needs to sit out next week vs WM. That pass in the 4 qtr was so wide open and DC threw the ball pretty well. A healthy KR makes that catch and runs in for a TD.

    D played pretty good I thought. The long bomb to Baldwin was my only complaint.

    Special Teams won us this game! Ruffer is a great story and a great kicker.


    The Crowd:
    Once again they were awful. Just awful. I do understand we were up 20-3 halfway through the 3rd quarter but it was so quiet. Like I have said before I sit right behind the band 7th row and NO ONE stands. I sat next to a gentleman who told me he had been to Tenn, LSU, Michigan, Superdome (Sugar Bowl), Georgia Tech for ND away games and never sat once. He stood the entire game. I told him about how our crowd “tattles” to the ushers if you stand and scream at you “down in front”. He said he has been asked several times to sit down at ND home games. There was an elderly, obese couple that sat in front of me that didn’t sta